Loretta reads Mother's Questions and Answers:1957-01-09

From Auroville Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search
Transcript of:
Mother's Questions and Answers: January 9, 1957
by Loretta, 2018 (1:30:31)
Audio icon.png Listen on Auroville Radio →

Mother begins her class today by telling us that the reality of the universe is delight. The word that she uses for ‘delight’ in French is ‘Joie’, ‘joy’. The Sanskrit word is ‘ananda’, which in English is usually translated into ‘bliss’ or ‘ecstasy’, but it is delight. The ultimate realization in Hindu spiritual practices is the source of the All, which they call Sat-chit-ananda: existence, consciousness, and bliss – you could say, existence, consciousness, and delight or ecstasy.

Mother has named different flowers using the French word joie and the Sanskrit word ananda. There are flowers called “The ananda of (something)”, like, “Ananda in the physical”, or “Ananda in the centres” (which of course is the chakras). And there are flowers called “The joy of (something)”, like “Joy of spirituality”, or “Joy of union with the Divine”, and all they do is show some aspect of the delight which Mother says is the reality of the creation.

Sri Aurobindo's aphorism for this class is another beautiful description of the secret knowledge of the Two who are One: the Supreme Master and the Divine Mother, in their infinite eternal romance. In Savitri, Book One, Canto IV, which he calls “The Secret Knowledge”, he writes how she does everything to keep him; and she is the whole creation, and she unfolds the creation, to capture his attention so she can be with him. Every sentence is another complete description. Here are some of the sentences. He enters into her work and her world, and “puts on joy and sorrow like a robe / And drinks experience like a strengthening wine.” (p.67)

Space is himself and Time is only he. (p.67)
This was his compact with his mighty mate,
For love of her and joined to her for ever
To follow the course of Time’s eternity (p.68)
For him she was made, lives only for his use.
But conquering her, then is he most her slave (p.65)

Sri Aurobindo has said that it is necessary to attain the complete realization of the unmanifest Supreme Master, and the complete realization of the manifest Divine Mother, and their relationship with each other, in order to attain the goal of his yoga. And this is the total delight, That Delight, which Mother speaks about in class today.

This is why Sri Aurobindo speaks of it so often. And he describes it thoroughly in many of his writings. God and Nature, the eternal relation of the Finite with the Infinite – which is only delight, through and through.

Here in class, Mother points out that Buddhism and all that derives from Buddhism operates under the row of an essential misunderstanding. The truth is that our creation came about for delight. We have lost it, because we have lost the consciousness of being a pure part of that delight. Buddhism, as Mother explains, says that the source of creation is not delight, taking delight in itself – but the source of creation is the desire to be. And since it is desire, it creates all the sufferings and problems. So the whole manifestation is just a collection of ongoing problems, and the best thing to do to escape suffering is to escape from the creation completely, and return to nothing, to Nirvana. But now, Mother says, it is time to go past this view of creation which is so terrible that we all have to escape it as soon as possible.

Last time, Mother pointed out that the new supramental force which is descending now is simply That Delight. And we only have to be more and more receptive to it. It's harder to do this than to run away, because we are full of old constructions that have to go, in order for us to become receptive. And Mother made it clear that this idea of escape being the best solution was in all cultures, in all religions, not just in Buddhism in Eastern countries.

One could look at all this as a philosophy, and sit back and appreciate it as a very well-organized philosophy, because it seems to cover the whole problem from every angle. But we can also use this information as a kind of guidance on our chosen spiritual path. People who observe themself carefully, and honestly, have said that they've seen how many comfortable thoughts and ideas of escape that they've been living with for years. And all these ideas of escape come from their own lives and their own countries. They're not from any kind of religion, and they're not ideas which are expressed in the terminology of Buddhist teachings. People have seen that they take refuge in the ideas of leaving life, or quitting life in various ways, since they were children. And of course these ideas are in all religions as well – but somehow we formulate them as a part of our thinking: they come from the background of universal thought. But now it is time to change.

In this class, Mother speaks about herself. And we get a very beautiful picture of who Mother is. It comes through her statements about how she personally believes that all the suffering which is the result of ignorance of the truth of divine delight, came about as the result of an accident. That the miseries of our world came because of a mistake at the origin of creation. It shows us her great, tender, loving heart, and her very high, all-encompassing wisdom, and how very much she cares about the way things are. And through her words we also see how much she wants it all to change.

In her published book of Prayers and Meditations, there are some prayers where Mother is carefully holding the earth, cradling the whole earth in her arms, as if the earth was a child needing comfort. In the Agenda, she spoke of having the battles of the First World War going on in different parts of her body. Towards the end of the Agenda, she tells Satprem about an experience where she felt herself to be nothing but a pipe, through which the supramental force was flowing into the manifestation. She was immersed in the force, it was all around her, and she said, “I just was the pipe”, and the Force flowed through, out to the whole world.

Sri Aurobindo said when he first met Mother, he saw someone who had more surrender, who was more surrendered to the divine will, for the goodness, for the truth, than anyone else he had ever seen.

We also get a glimpse today of what kind of relationship Mother had with the children in the Ashram. It shows in the way they feel free to speak to her, and the way they ask their questions, and the kind of questions they ask. And we see how she encourages them.

We also see how important it is to her that these children make spiritual progress. It is in everything she does; and we see it again at the very end of this class, when she speaks about studying the last chapters of The Life Divine, because she thinks the children are ready now for this realization.

Many of these students who were in Mother's class in the '50s are still in the Ashram. Now they're in their 70s and 80s. We have accounts of Mother's relationship with them in books of collected stories of ashramites' experiences with Mother. And over the years, some of them have told me how they never thought of Mother as being far from them. They said she was very much a part of their lives. They could go to her, ask her anything they wanted; and she advised them about everything they were doing. She cared so much about all that they did, that they grew up feeling like she was more like a mother and a friend than any kind of a guru.

This week, we have the original French tape-recording of Mother's class. It will play after the English translation.

So it's January 9, 1957. We're all in the Playground; we can distantly hear the sound of children laughing and playing (very young children, in another part of the Playground). And we wait for Mother to start reading the next aphorism. And Mother reads first the title...

9 January 1957 [1]

Man, the Purusha

“God cannot cease from leaning down towards Nature, nor man from aspiring-towards the Godhead. It is the eternal relation of the finite to the infinite. When they seem to turn from each other, it is to recoil for a more intimate meeting.
In man nature of the world becomes again self-conscious so that it may take the greater leap towards its Enjoyer. This is the Enjoyer whom unknowingly it possesses, whom life and sensation possessing deny and denying seek. Nature of the world knows not God, only because it knows not itself; when it knows itself, it shall know unalloyed delight of being.
Possession in oneness and not loss in oneness is the secret. God and Man,World and Beyond-world become one when they know each other. Their division is the cause of ignorance as ignorance is the cause of suffering.”

Sri Aurobindo, “Thoughts and Glimpses

According to what Sri Aurobindo says here, the reality of the universe is what is called God or godhead, but essentially it is Delight. The universe is created in Delight and for Delight. But this Delight can exist only in the perfect oneness of the creation with its creator, and Sri Aurobindo describes this oneness as the Possessor — that is, the Creator — the Possessor being possessed by his creation, a sort of reciprocal possession which is the very essence of the Oneness and the source of all delight.

And it is because of division — because the Possessor no longer possesses and because the possessed no longer possesses the Possessor, division is created and the essential Delight is changed into ignorance, and this ignorance is the cause of all suffering. “Ignorance”, not in the sense in which it is usually understood, for that is what Sri Aurobindo calls Nescience: that ignorance is a consequence of the other. True ignorance is ignorance of the oneness, the union, the identity. And that is the cause of all suffering.

Ever since division began and creation lost its direct contact with the Creator, ignorance has reigned, and all suffering is its result.

All those who have had the inner experience have had this experience, that the moment one re-establishes the union with the divine source, all suffering disappears. But there has been a very persistent movement, about which I spoke to you last week, which put at the source of creation not this essential divine Delight but desire. This delight of creation, self-manifestation, self-expression — there is an entire line of seekers and sages who have considered it not as a delight but as a desire; the whole line of Buddhism is of this kind. And instead of seeing the solution in a Oneness which restores to us the essential Delight of the manifestation and the becoming, they consider that the goal and also the way are a total rejection of all desire to be and a return to annihilation.

This conception amounts to an essential misunderstanding. The methods recommended for self-liberation are methods of development which can be very useful, but this conception of a world that’s essentially bad, for it is the result of desire, and from which one must escape at all costs and as quickly as possible, has been the greatest and most serious distortion of all spiritual life in the history of mankind.

It might have been useful, perhaps, at a particular time, for everything is useful in the world’s history, but this utility has passed, it is outworn, and it is time for this conception to be superseded and for us to return to a more essential and higher Truth, to go back to the Delight of existence, the Joy of union and manifestation of the Divine.

This new orientation — I mean new in its terrestrial realisation — must replace all the former spiritual orientations and open the way to the new realisation which will be a supramental realisation. That is why I told you last week that only Delight, the true divine Delight can bring about the Victory.

Naturally, there must be no confusion about what this Delight is, and that is why from the beginning Sri Aurobindo puts us on our guard, telling us that it is only when one has passed beyond enjoyings that one can enter into Bliss. Bliss is precisely that state which comes from the manifestation of this Delight. But it is quite the opposite of all that is usually called joy and pleasure, and these must be completely given up in order to have the other.

(To a child) Do you have a question?

I have a question, but we haven’t read that yet.

What is it?

[Even if we haven't read it yet?]

[Is it one which will come?]


[In this same chapter?]


[(Pages being turned)]

[What is it about?]

It is about God and Nature.

[(Mother laughs)] So ?

Why do God and Nature “run from each other when glimpsed”? (““God andNature are like a boy and a girl at play and in love. They hide and run from each other when glimpsed so that they may be sought after and chased and captured.””)

[(Mother laughs)] In order to play. He says so: “They are at play.” It is in play.

(A young disciple) Mother, does Nature know it is a game? God knows it is a game, but does Nature know it?

I think Nature knows it too, it is only man who does not know!

(Another child) Sweet Mother, where can Nature hide?

Where can she hide? She hides in the inconscience, my child. That is the greatest hiding-place, the inconscience. Besides, God also hides in the inconscience.

Perhaps, when one knows it is a game and plays it for fun, it is amusing. But when one doesn’t know it is a game, it is not amusing. You see, it is only when one is on the other side, on the divine side, that one can see it like that; that is, as long as we are in the ignorance, well, inevitably we suffer from what should amuse and please us. Fundamentally, it comes to this: when one does something deliberately, knowing what one is doing, it is very interesting and may even be very amusing. But when it is something you don’t do deliberately and don’t understand, when it is something imposed on you and endured, it is not pleasant. So the solution, the one which is always given: you must learn, know, do it deliberately. But to tell you my true feeling, I think it would be much better to change the game.... When one is in that state, one can smile, understand and even be amused, but when one sees, when one is conscious of all those who, far from knowing that they are playing, take the game very seriously and find it rather unpleasant, well... I don’t know, one would prefer it to change. That is a purely personal opinion.

I know very well: the moment one crosses over to the other side... instead of being underneath and enduring, when one is above and not only observes but acts oneself, it is so total a reversal that it is difficult to recall the state one was in when carrying all the weight of this inconscience, this ignorance on one’s back, when one was enduring things without knowing why or how or where one was going or why it was like that. One forgets all that. And then one can say: it is an “eternal game in an eternal garden”. But for it to be an amusing game, everybody should be able to play the game knowing the rules of the game; as long as one does not know the rules of the game, it is not pleasant. So the solution you are given is: “But learn the rules of the game!”... That is not within everybody’s reach.

I have the impression, a very powerful impression, that a practical joker came and spoilt the game and made it into something dramatic, and this practical joker is obviously the cause of the division and the ignorance which is the result of this division, and of the suffering which is the result of ignorance. Indeed, in spite of all the spiritual traditions, it is difficult to conceive that this state of division, ignorance and suffering was foreseen at the beginning of creation. In spite of everything, one doesn’t like to think that it could have been foreseen. Indeed, I refuse to believe it. I call it an accident — a rather terrible accident, but still, you see, it is especially terrible to the human consciousness; for the universal consciousness, it may only be quite a reparable accident. And after all, when it has been set right, we shall even be able to recall it and say, “Ah! it has given us something we wouldn’t have had otherwise.” But we must first wait for it to be put right.

Anyway, I don’t know if there are people who say that it was foreseen and willed, but I tell you it was neither foreseen nor willed, and this is precisely why when it happened, quite unexpectedly, immediately something else sprang forth from the Source, which probably would not have manifested if this accident had not taken place. If Delight had remained Delight, conceived as Delight, and everything had come about in Delight and Union instead of in division, there would never have been any need for the divine Consciousness to plunge into the inconscience as Love. So, when one sees this from very far and from high above, one says, “After all, something has perhaps been gained from it.” But one must see it from a great distance and a great height to be able to say that. Or rather, when it is left far behind, when one has gone beyond this state, entered into Union and Delight, when division and inconscience and suffering have disappeared, then one may very wisely say, “Ah, yes, we have gained an experience we would never have had otherwise.” But the experience must be behind, we must not be right in the midst of it. For, even for someone who — this is something I know — even for someone who has come out of this state, who lives in the consciousness of Oneness, for whom ignorance is something external, no longer something intimate and painful, even for that person it is impossible to look on the suffering of all those who have not come out of it with a smile of indifference. That seems impossible to me. Therefore, it is really necessary that things in the world should change and the acute state of sickness should disappear, so that we can say, “Ah! yes, we have benefited by it.” It is true that something has been gained, but it is a very costly gain.

That is why, I believe, because of that, so many initiates and sages have been attracted by the solution of the void, of Nirvana, for this is obviously a very radical way of escaping from the consequences of an ignorant manifestation.

Only, the solution of changing this manifestation into a true, truly divine reality is a far superior solution. And this is what we want to attempt now, with a certitude of succeeding one day or another, for, in spite of everything, despite everything, what is true is eternally true, and what is true in essence must necessarily become true in the realisation, one day or another. Sri Aurobindo told us that we had taken the first step on the path and that the time had come to accomplish the work, therefore one has only to set out. That’s all.

So, your question? (To the child who asked about the game of hide-and-seek) Was this what you wanted to know?

Actually what you were asking was: Why this image?


One could reverse the thing. Instead of saying that the universe is like this, that is, the Divine and man are like this, look like this, one should say that this is perhaps an outer, superficial expression of what the essential relation between the Divine and man is at the present moment.

In fact, this would amount to saying that when one plays one is much more divine than when one is serious! (Laughing) But it’s not always good to say this. Perhaps there is more divinity in the spontaneous play of children than in the erudition of the scholar or the asceticism of the saint. That’s what I have always thought. Only (smiling) it is a divinity which is quite unconscious of itself.

As for me, I must confess to you that I feel much more essentially myself when I am joyful and when I play — in my own way — than when I am very grave and very serious — much more. Grave and serious — that always gives me the impression that I am dragging the weight of all this creation, so heavy and so obscure, whereas when I play — when I play, when I can laugh, can enjoy myself — it gives me the feeling of a fine powder of delight falling from above and tinting this creation, this world with a very special colour and bringing it much closer to what it should essentially be.

Mother, when and why are you grave?

Oh! well, you have seen me sometimes, haven’t you? Perhaps when I come down a rung, I don’t know — when someone is drowning or in difficulty, then one must come down from the bank into the water to pull him out. Perhaps that is the reason. When the creation is in a special difficulty, one comes down a little, one pulls, so one becomes serious. But when all is going well, one can laugh and enjoy oneself.

In fact, it could be said that all preaching, all exhortations, even all prayers and invocations come from what Sri Aurobindo calls the lower hemisphere, that is to say, one is still down below. It may be the summit, may be the frontier, it may be just the edge of this lower hemisphere, but one is still in the lower hemisphere. And as soon as one passes to the other side, all this seems, to say the least, useless and almost childish in the bad sense of the word — ignorant, still ignorant. And it is very interesting to be still in this state where one is at times on one side, at times just on the border of the other. Well, this border of the other, which for the human consciousness is an almost inaccessible summit, for one who can live consciously and freely in the higher hemisphere, is in spite of everything a descent.

Later I would like us to take up and read here the last chapters of The Life Divine. I think you are becoming old enough, mature enough, to be able to follow it. And then there are all kinds of things you will be able to understand and subjects we shall be able to take up, based on this text, which will help us to go one step further, a serious step towards realisation. He describes so precisely and marvellously the difference between these two states of consciousness, how all that seems to man almost the ultimate of perfection, at least of realisation, how all that still belongs to the lower hemisphere, including all the relations with the gods as men have known them and still know them — how all these things are still far below — and what is the true state, the one which he describes as the supramental state, when one passes beyond.

And in fact, as long as one has not consciously passed beyond, there is a whole world of things one cannot understand.

So I would like us now to open the way and pass beyond, all together, a little.

There we are.

Le 9 janvier 1957 [2]

L’Homme, le Purusha

« Dieu ne peut cesser de se pencher vers la Nature, ni l’homme d’aspirer à la divinité. C’est la relation éternelle du fini à l’infini. Quand ils semblent se détourner l’un de l’autre, c’est pour s’élancer vers une plus intime rencontre.
Dans l’homme, la nature du monde redevient consciente de soi afin de faire un plus grand bond vers

son Possesseur. C’est ce Possesseur que, sans le savoir, elle possède, que la vie et la sensation nient, tout en le possédant, et cherchent, tout en le niant. Si la nature du monde ne connaît pas Dieu, c’est qu’elle ne se connaît pas elle-même ; quand elle se connaîtra elle-même, elle connaîtra une joie d’être sans mélange.

Posséder dans l’unité et non se perdre dans l’unité, tel est le secret. Dieu et l’Homme, le Monde et l’Au-delà deviennent un quand ils se connaissent l’un l’autre. Leur division est la cause de l’ignorance, de même que l’ignorance est la cause de la souffrance. »

(Aperçus et Pensées)

D’après ce que Sri Aurobindo dit ici, la réalité de l’univers est ce que l’on appelle Dieu ou divinité, mais c’est essentiellement Joie. L’univers est créé dans la Joie et pour la Joie. Mais cette Joie ne peut exister que dans l’unité parfaite de la création avec son Créateur, et il décrit cette unité comme le Possesseur — c’est-à-dire le Créateur —, le Possesseur étant possédé par sa création, une sorte de possession réciproque qui est l’essence même de l’Unité et qui est la source de toute joie.

Et c’est à cause de la division, parce que le Possesseur ne possède plus et que le possédé ne possède plus non plus le Possesseur, que la division est créée et que la Joie essentielle est changée en ignorance, et cette ignorance est cause de toute la souffrance. « Ignorance », non pas dans le sens où on l’entend d’ordinaire parce que cela, c’est ce que Sri Aurobindo appelle la Nescience : cette ignorance-là est une conséquence de l’autre. La vraie ignorance, c’est l’ignorance de l’unité, de l’union, de l’identité. Et c’est celle-là qui est cause de toutes les souffrances.

Dès que la division a commencé et que la création a perdu le contact direct avec le Créateur, l’ignorance a régné et elle a eu pour résultat toutes les souffrances.

Tous ceux qui ont fait l’expérience intérieure ont eu cette expérience-là, que de la minute où on rétablit l’union avec l’origine divine, toute souffrance disparaît. Mais il y a eu un mouvement très prolongé, dont je vous parlais la semaine dernière, qui consistait à mettre à l’origine de la création non pas cette Joie divine essentielle, mais le désir. Cette joie de créer, de se manifester, de s’exprimer, il y a toute une série de chercheurs et de sages qui l’ont considérée non comme une joie, mais comme un désir ; toute la ligne du bouddhisme est ainsi. Et au lieu de voir la solution dans une Unité qui vous redonne la Joie essentielle de la manifestation et du devenir, ils considèrent que le but, et le moyen en même temps, sont le rejet total de tout désir d’être et le retour à l’annihilation.

Cette conception est comme un malentendu essentiel. Les méthodes préconisées pour se libérer sont des méthodes de développement qui peuvent être très utiles ; mais cette conception d’un monde essentiellement mauvais, parce qu’il est le produit du désir et dont il faut s’échapper à tout prix et le plus vite possible, a été la plus grande et la plus sérieuse déformation de toute la vie spirituelle dans l’histoire de l’humanité.

Elle pouvait être utile, peut-être, à un moment donné, car tout est utile dans l’histoire du monde, mais cette utilité est passée, elle est périmée, et il est temps que cette conception soit dépassée et que l’on retourne à une Vérité plus essentielle et plus haute, qu’on remonte vers la Joie d’être, la Joie de l’union et de la manifestation du Divin.

C’est cette nouvelle orientation — je veux dire nouvelle dans sa réalisation terrestre — qui doit remplacer toutes les orientations spirituelles précédentes et ouvrir le chemin à la réalisation nouvelle, qui sera une réalisation supramentale. C’est pour cela que je vous disais la semaine dernière que seule la Joie, la Joie divine vraie, peut remporter la Victoire.

Naturellement, il ne faut pas faire de confusion sur ce qu’est cette Joie, et c’est pour cela que, dès le début, Sri Aurobindo nous a mis en garde en nous disant que c’est seulement quand on a dépassé la jouissance que l’on peut entrer dans la béatitude. La béatitude, c’est justement l’état qui provient de la manifestation de cette Joie. Mais elle est tout à fait l’opposé de tout ce que l’on a l’habitude d’appeler joie et plaisir, et il faut avoir complètement abandonné l’un pour pouvoir avoir l’autre.

(À un enfant) Tu as une question ?

J’ai une question, mais nous n’avons pas encore lu cela.

Qu’est‑ce que c’est ?

C’est sur Dieu et la Nature.

Et alors ?

Pourquoi Dieu et la Nature s’enfuient-ils lorsqu’ils s’aperçoivent ?

Pour jouer. Il le dit : ils jouent. C’est pour jouer.

(Un jeune disciple) Mère, est‑ce que la Nature sait que c’est un jeu ? Dieu sait que c’est un jeu, mais est‑ce que la Nature le sait ?

Je pense que la Nature le sait aussi, c’est seulement l’homme qui ne le sait pas !

(Un autre enfant) Douce Mère, où est‑ce que la Nature peut se cacher ?

Où elle peut se cacher ? Elle se cache dans l’inconscience, mon enfant. C’est la plus grande cachette, c’est l’inconscience. D’ailleurs, Dieu aussi se cache dans l’inconscience.

Peut-être, quand on sait que c’est un jeu et qu’on le fait en jouant, ça amuse. Mais quand on ne sait pas que c’est un jeu, ça n’amuse pas. N’est‑ce pas, c’est seulement quand on est de l’autre côté, du côté divin, qu’on peut voir cela de cette façon-là ; c’est-à-dire que tant qu’on est dans l’ignorance, eh bien, nécessairement on souffre de ce qui devrait nous amuser et nous faire plaisir. Au fond, cela revient à ceci : quand on fait une chose exprès, en sachant ce que l’on fait, c’est très intéressant et cela peut même être très amusant. Mais quand c’est quelque chose que l’on ne fait pas exprès et que l’on ne comprend pas, quand c’est une chose qui vous est imposée et que l’on subit, ce n’est pas agréable. Alors la solution, celle que l’on donne toujours : il faut apprendre, il faut savoir, il faut le faire exprès. Mais pour vous dire mon sentiment, je crois qu’il vaudrait mieux changer de jeu... on peut, quand on est dans cet état-là, sourire, comprendre et même s’amuser, mais quand on perçoit, quand on est conscient de tous ceux qui, loin de savoir qu’ils jouent, prennent très sérieusement ce jeu et le trouvent plutôt mauvais, eh bien... je ne sais pas, on aimerait mieux que ça change. C’est une opinion toute personnelle.

Je sais bien : de la minute où l’on passe de l’autre côté... au lieu d’être dessous et de subir, quand on est dessus et que non seulement on observe, mais on fait soi-même, c’est un renversement si total qu’il est difficile de se souvenir de l’état dans lequel on est quand on a tout le poids de cette inconscience, de cette ignorance sur le dos, et qu’on subit les choses sans savoir ni pourquoi ni comment ni où l’on va ni pourquoi c’est. On oublie cela. Et alors on peut dire : c’est un « jeu éternel dans un jardin éternel ». Mais pour que ce soit un jeu amusant, il faudrait que tout le monde joue le jeu en connaissant les règles du jeu ; tant que l’on ne connaît pas les règles du jeu, ce n’est pas agréable. Alors la solution que l’on vous donne : « Mais apprenez les règles du jeu ! »... ce n’est pas à la portée de tout le monde.

Moi, j’ai l’impression, très forte impression, qu’il y a un mauvais plaisant qui est venu gâter le jeu et qui en a fait quelque chose de dramatique, et ce mauvais plaisant est évidemment la cause de la division et de l’ignorance qui est produite par cette division, et de la souffrance qui est produite par l’ignorance. Au fond, malgré toutes les traditions spiritualistes, il est difficile de concevoir que cet état de division, d’ignorance et de souffrance était prévu à l’origine de la création. Malgré tout, il est gênant de penser que cela ait pu être prévu. Moi, je me refuse à le croire. J’appelle cela un accident — un accident assez formidable, mais enfin, n’est‑ce pas, il est formidable surtout en proportion de la conscience humaine ; en proportion de la conscience universelle, ce peut n’être qu’un accident très réparable. Et après tout, quand il sera réparé, on pourra même s’en souvenir en se disant : « Ah ! cela nous a donné quelque chose que nous n’aurions pas eu sans cela. » Mais il faut attendre que ce soit réparé, d’abord.

En tout cas, je ne sais pas s’il est des gens pour dire que c’était prévu et voulu, mais moi, je vous dis que ce n’était pas prévu et pas voulu, et c’est même pour cela que lorsqu’il s’est produit, d’une façon tout à fait inattendue, immédiatement quelque chose de plus a jailli de l’Origine, qui probablement ne se serait pas manifesté si cet accident n’avait pas eu lieu. Si la Joie était restée Joie et conçue comme Joie, et que tout se soit passé dans la Joie et dans l’Union au lieu de se passer dans la division, il n’y aurait jamais eu besoin que la Conscience divine se précipite dans l’inconscience comme Amour. Alors, quand on voit cela de très loin et de très haut, on dit : « Après tout, on y a peut-être gagné quelque chose. » Mais il faut le voir de très loin et de très haut pour pouvoir dire cela. Ou plutôt, quand c’est par derrière, quand on a dépassé l’état, quand on est rentré dans l’Union et dans la Joie, quand la division et l’inconscience et la souffrance ont disparu, alors on peut très sagement dire : « Eh oui, on y a gagné une expérience qu’on n’aurait jamais eue autrement. » Mais il faut que l’expérience soit derrière, il ne faut pas que l’on soit en plein dedans. Parce que même pour celui — c’est quelque chose que je sais —, même pour celui qui est sorti de cet état, qui vit dans la conscience de l’Unité, pour qui l’ignorance est une chose extérieure, n’est plus une chose intime et douloureuse, même pour celuilà — il est impossible de regarder avec un sourire indifférent la souffrance de tous ceux qui n’en sont pas sortis. Cela me paraît impossible. Par conséquent, il faudrait vraiment que les choses changent dans le monde et que la condition aiguë de la maladie disparaisse pour que l’on puisse dire : « Ah ! oui, on y a gagné. » C’est vrai qu’on y a gagné quelque chose, mais c’est un gain très coûteux.

C’est pour cela, je crois, c’est à cause de cela que tant d’initiés, de sages ont été attirés par la solution du néant, du Nirvâna, parce que, évidemment, c’est un moyen très radical d’échapper aux conséquences d’une manifestation ignorante.

Seulement, la solution de changer cette manifestation en une réalité vraie, vraiment divine, est une solution très supérieure. Et c’est celle-là que l’on veut essayer maintenant, avec une certitude de réussir un jour ou l’autre, parce que malgré tout, en dépit de tout, ce qui est vrai est éternellement vrai, et ce qui est vrai dans l’essence doit nécessairement devenir vrai dans la réalisation un jour ou l’autre. Sri Aurobindo nous a annoncé que nous avions fait le premier pas sur le chemin et que le moment était venu d’aboutir, par conséquent il n’y a qu’à se mettre en route. Voilà.

Alors, ta question ? (À l’enfant qui voulait savoir pourquoi le jeu de cache-cache) C’était cela que tu voulais savoir ?

Au fond, ce que tu demandais, c’était : pourquoi cette image ?


On pourrait retourner la chose. Au lieu de dire que l’univers est comme cela, c’est-à-dire que le Divin et l’homme sont comme cela, ressemblent à cela, on devrait dire que cela, c’est peut-être une expression extérieure, superficielle de ce qu’est la relation essentielle à l’heure actuelle entre le Divin et l’homme.

Au fond, cela reviendrait à dire que quand on joue, on est beaucoup plus divin que quand on est sérieux ! (riant) Mais cela, ce n’est pas toujours bon à dire. Peut-être y a-t-il plus de divinité dans le jeu spontané des enfants que dans l’érudition du savant et l’ascétisme du saint. Cela, je l’ai toujours pensé. Seulement (souriant) c’est une divinité très inconsciente d’elle-même.

Pour ma part, je dois vous confesser que je me sens beaucoup plus moi-même, essentiellement, quand je suis joyeuse et que je joue — à ma manière — que lorsque je suis très grave et très sérieuse, beaucoup plus. Grave et sérieuse, cela me donne toujours l’impression que je suis en train de tirer le poids de toute cette création si lourde et si obscure, tandis que quand j’y joue — que je joue, que je peux rire, que je peux m’amuser —, cela me fait l’effet comme d’une poudre de joie qui tomberait d’en haut et qui donnerait une coloration très spéciale à cette création, à ce monde, et le rendrait beaucoup plus proche de ce qu’il doit être essentiellement.

Mère, pourquoi et quand est‑ce que tu es grave ?

Oh ! bien, vous m’avez vue quelquefois, non ? Peut-être quand je descends d’un échelon, je ne sais pas — quand il y a quelqu’un qui se noie ou qui est en difficulté, alors il faut descendre de la berge dans l’eau pour le tirer. C’est peut-être pour cela. Quand la création est dans une difficulté spéciale, on descend un peu, on tire, alors on devient sérieux. Mais quand tout va bien, on peut rire et s’amuser.

Au fond, on pourrait dire que toutes les prédications, toutes les exhortations, même toutes les prières et toutes les invocations viennent de ce que Sri Aurobindo appelle l’hémisphère inférieur, c’est-à-dire qu’on est encore dessous. Cela peut être le sommet, cela peut être la frontière, cela peut être juste le bord de cet hémisphère inférieur, mais on est encore dans l’hémisphère inférieur. Et dès que l’on passe de l’autre côté, tout cela vous paraît pour le moins inutile, et presque enfantin dans le mauvais sens du mot — ignorant, encore ignorant. Et c’est une chose très intéressante d’être encore dans cet état où l’on est tantôt d’un côté, tantôt juste à la frontière de l’autre. Eh bien, cette frontière de l’autre, qui pour la conscience humaine est un sommet presque inaccessible, pour celui qui peut consciemment et librement vivre dans l’hémisphère supérieur, c’est malgré tout une descente.

Je voudrais, plus tard, que nous prenions pour lire ici ces derniers chapitres de La Vie Divine. Je crois que vous devenez assez grands, assez mûrs pour pouvoir suivre cela. Et alors, il y a toutes sortes de choses que vous pourrez comprendre et des sujets que nous pourrons aborder, basés sur ces textes-là, qui nous feront avancer d’un pas, un pas sérieux vers la réalisation. Il décrit d’une façon tellement précise et tellement merveilleuse la différence entre ces deux états de conscience, comment tout ce qui paraît à l’homme un maximum presque de perfection, en tout cas de réalisation, comme tout cela appartient encore à l’hémisphère inférieur, y compris toutes les relations avec les divinités telles que les hommes les ont connues et les connaissent encore — comme toutes ces choses sont encore en-dessous —, et quel est le vrai état, celui qu’il décrit comme l’état supramental, quand on passe au-dessus.

Et au fond, tant que l’on n’est pas passé au-dessus consciemment, il y a tout un monde de choses que l’on ne peut pas comprendre.

Alors je voudrais, là, que nous puissions ouvrir le chemin, passer au-delà, tous ensemble, un peu.