Loretta reads Mother's Questions and Answers:1956-09-12 and 1956-09-19

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Transcript of:
Mother's Questions and Answers: September 12 and 19, 1956
by Loretta, 2017 (1:35:49)
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We have two of Mother's Wednesday classes this time, because the first class is very short. It's informative, because Mother asks a question; she asks: why don't people practice what she says. Nobody answers, even though Mother asks many people. So Mother answers it herself. She says first of all, people don't practice because the practice does not have a sufficiently concrete reality to dominate other things in life. It may have been true then; it's certainly true now. Not a sufficient concrete reality to take precedence over the other things that we want to do.

She says this is becuase the effect is out of proportion to the result. In other words: you work too much, and you get too little. But then she says, this kind of effort is only the beginning. And this will change. And the effort will not longer be out of proportion to the result.

So again, it's a matter of having faith in what Mother and Sri Aurobindo teach. In one of his shorter writings, “The Hour of God”, Sri Aurobindo speaks about times when much work goes into the making of a little result. But then he goes on to say, you had better be ready ‒ because when things suddenly move very fast, you don't want to be caught short.

Essays Divine and Human
“The Hour of God”

Essays Divine and Human - The Hour of God.jpg
PDF (2 pages)

And since there are no more questions, and no one asks her to speak about anything. Mother says that she will say nothing. And then there's a meditation.

At the very last minute before they meditate, we hear a child's voice ‒ a small voice, a girl ‒ say, “Something to awaken in us a will to progress”. And perhaps Mother did do that in the meditation, because we'll see in the class of September 19th there's a great change. (But perhaps she did not do that; and we will also see why.)

In the next class, on September 19th, there are a lot of questions. And we could ask also if it's because people realize that if they don't ask questions, Mother's not going to say anything. But maybe it's because Mother gave them something during meditation. Perhaps what the girl asked: something to make them progress. All very good reasons.

But there's another good reason, which the people in the class didn't know anything about. Maybe this is why they've changed. Way back on the [4th] of January, 1956 (that is to say, when we started this year's classes of January, 1956) we were speaking about the first supramental descent ‒ the first entry into the physical consciousness ‒ which we knew would happen two months later, on February 29th, 1956. And then we tried to follow its results. We tried to see if we could see anything that changed because of that ‒ something from Mother, or perhaps the effect on the people around her. There are people who knew it was coming. But so far we've heard very little.

It has come; Mother wrote about shattering “a huge and massive golden door”[1] ‒ the door that was separating the world from the Divine. And then she experienced the supramental force and consciousness. She experienced it “rush[ing] down upon earth in an uninterrupted flow”[2].

We saw that Mother did not announce it to the Ashram; she waited about two months, until the 24th April darshan. Perhaps she was waiting to see how the general earth consciousness would respond: when would people realize it?

And by now, it's over half a year later. We haven't seen that too many people are aware of it yet. It's so new; it's so much; it's so far beyond us. People just are only beginning to feel something. In one class, Mother had even remarked that here in the Ashram, there are people who have worked for years, for decades ‒ who have given their lives ‒ to work for this realization. And even they don't have any perception or experience of the new Force.

Mother's been saying for some time that she's been receiving questions which are not interesting. Perhaps we can speculate that these questions are like: “what will happen when the Supermind comes,” and “how will it be when the Supermind comes”. Last week she did answer a couple of those questions ‒ pretty much for the first time. (The first time we hear it.) But she said that she's been giving these answers all the time. Everybody wants to know, but were not developed enough to receive.

But it is there. We don't know what Mother may have experienced up till now ‒ to the time of this class. She may have been experiencing it, but there's no record of it. But on the day of this class, September 12th, Mother had a major experience. It's in the Agenda. And it's in the Agenda because somebody wrote it down ‒ Mother didn't speak it; it wasn't recorded. She didn't write it herself. She told someone else; they wrote it down, and Mother looked at it ‒ corrected it, approved it ‒ and added a few words.

And she says that this experience of the new consciousness was intended just for her. And once again ‒ just like the coming of the new Force for the first time, which came in the common meditation ‒ this second major experience (that we know about, that she had) comes when she's in the common meditation, with the people in the Ashram and the school.

This is Mother's experience of September 12th:

“... A light, not like the golden light of the Supermind: rather a kind of phosphorescence. I felt that had it been night, it would have been physically visible.
... And it was denser than my physical body: the physical body seemed to me almost unreal — as though crumbly — like sand running through your fingers.
... I would have been incapable of speaking, words seemed so petty, narrow, ignorant.
... I saw (how shall I put it?) the successive preparations which took place, in certain anterior beings, in order to achieve this.
... It felt as if I had several heads.
... The experience of February 29 was of a general nature; but this one was intended for me.
... An experience I had never had.
... I begin to see what the supramental body will be.
... I had had a somewhat similar experience at the time of the union of the supreme creative principle with the physical consciousness. But that was a subtle experience, while this was material — in the body.
... I did not have the experience, I did not look at it: I WAS it.
... And it radiated from me: myriads of little sparks that were penetrating everybody — I saw them enter into each one of those present.
... One more step.”[3]

Sixteen years later, on March 24th of 1972, there's an Agenda entry: Mother says that she saw her completely new body, by looking down at herself. She was not in a trance; she used her physical eyes. She just looked down, and saw her body. She said she didn't know if it was the supramental body, or a transitional body. It was neither man nor woman. And the physical things needed for reproduction, for eating and digesting food, were completely gone. She said that breathing had become prominant. And she described her body as a lovely, slender, harmonious form ‒ a suggestion of a human form, but just a hint of it; with shoulders, arms, legs, a body, a waist. But its functions were different. She said it was certainly not used for the purpose for which we now use our bodies.

She also said that this form must be already in the subtle physical plane.

In the last broadcast, of September 5th, we had some information about this. Mother had told the class to develop their perception of their subtle physical consciousness, and to become aware of the subtle physical plane, if they wanted to see how the supramental force was actually manifesting. This was part of her answer to these endless questions of “what's it like?”, “when's it going to come?”, “what's it doing?”. She said all that they have to do is get their consciousness into the subtle physical, and they could see it ‒ it's there already.

In that class we had a lot of Sri Aurobindo's descriptions of the subtle physical; most of them are in Savitri. He says it's the place closest to the earth-plane. And everything that comes here into our plane, and everything that leaves here (which includes us) ‒ everything passes through the subtle physical. So, of course, the form that Mother said she saw is her own body ‒ had to be there. And it's certainly there now; maybe it's even changed and gone on. (Still another reason for us to work on realizing our subtle physical! And to be conscious on the subtle physical plane, as we are conscious in our own physical plane.)

Mother has said that this experience was intended for her. She's working on physically receiving the new Force. She's working to use it to tranform her physical body ‒ to allow it to work to transform her physical body. But she also saw that this material physical experience that came into her, radiated out from her in myriads of little sparks that were penetrating everybody present. So this was Mother's work; her job is to bring the Force to her and to us.

Many years later, in the Agenda recording, Mother says that she's just a pipe, through which the new force flows out to the rest of the world. And her own experience of this is that she is completely immersed in this force ‒ it is all around her, she is completely in it, and it's also flowing out through her to everybody else. So in another way, the experience of September 12th was also for her. Because it came in such a way that her work was continued (her work of bringing the new consciousness to us.)

So, we have a couple reasons (at least) why everything has changed ‒ and we'll see it in the class of September 19th.

One answer which Mother gives in this second class gives more light on our vital beings. Somehow, the idea of the vital is most difficult to grasp. It is all our energies ‒ they express in everything we do, in our emotions, and in our feelings; they color our movements; they make us do things (our vital energies).

Mother points out that one of the problems we have in not being able to progress is because the vital resists surrender to the new force. The vital doesn't want to surrender to the Supreme, and to this manifestation of the Supreme. And because of that, it progresses more slowly than our other parts; so our other parts are more developed.

And in Savitri, when King Aswapati is trying to find out why things are not progressing, he has to go down into the lower vital ‒ into all the darkness and all the falsehood, all the way down through the subconscient with all its difficulties, to the last locked floor of the Subconscient. Where finally he can see the key of Nature's change. Because Life descended into the physical, all the way down; and from there, in the very most unconscious part of the creation, there's a seed there. A seed ‒ a key of change.

Mother's explanation explains the condition of vital energies and vital movements. It is in many people who are seriously trying to surrender and do the Yoga, and they're working to purify the vital. Probably it also explains something about people who are not consciously trying to progress, but who are receiving the Force ‒ people all over the world.

The last question in this class is a very beautiful response. Someone asks the best way to reject the lower forms of love ‒ the forms of love which seem to refuse to leave us. And Mother says that we should always love. She keeps us loving. She keeps love in us. She says that we should continue loving always. She says such a beautiful thing, such a simple thing:

“instead of ceasing to love because one loves [badly], one must cease to love [badly] and want to love well.”[4]

And then Mother gives some advice on how to do this, in the class.

The original French tape-recording of both the classes will automatically play after the English translation of both classes.

It's the 12th of September, 1956. Everyone's in the Playground for Mother's class; Mother starts...

12 September 1956[5]

[Do you have a question? ... You, a question? ... You?]


Sweet Mother, do we have a right to ask questions if we don’t practise what you say?

You always have the right to do anything! (Laughter) You may ask all the questions you like. Practise? Fundamentally, it is up to each one to choose, isn’t it? — whether he wants to practise or [whether he does not want to practice], whether he considers it useful or not. That is [always] something which cannot be imposed; it must be done freely. But one may always ask questions.

Well, I am going to ask a question: “Why don’t people practise?” Do you know why they don’t practise? (Mother asks others in turn.) And you? And you?... Bah! Do you know?

Perhaps because one is lazy!

That is one of the main reasons. And so one conceals one’s laziness behind fine reasons, the first of which says, “I can’t, I don’t know” or else, “I have tried and not succeeded” or “I don’t know where to begin!” Any reason whatever, isn’t that true? The first that comes to you. Or else, one doesn’t practise because one doesn’t find it worthwhile to make the effort — that is part of the laziness also, it asks for too much effort! But one can’t live without effort! If one were to refuse to make any effort, one would not even be able to stand on one’s legs or walk or even eat.

I believe that one doesn’t practise first of all because this doesn’t have a sufficiently concrete reality to dominate other things in life, because the effort seems out of proportion to the result. But this kind of effort is only a beginning: once one gets into it, it is no longer the same thing.

(Turning to the child) So then, ask your question, even if you don’t practise!

No, I have no question, Sweet Mother.

Oh, your question was only this! You wanted to say, “Is it honest to ask questions and then not do anything of what you are told?” Is that it?

Yes, Mother.


(A disciple) We still have this atavism of needing to be forced in order to do something. From our childhood we have been forced to do things.Here it is just the opposite.

Forced? Oh, so one doesn’t do anything when not forced to! But something done through compulsion has no value.

Is that all? Don’t you have a question?... I have many but they are either too specific or too general! Or else, precisely, they are only interesting for those who are eager to practise.

What would you like to hear?... (Silence) Nothing, you see, you say nothing. All right, that is very good, I shall say nothing!

(A child) Something to awaken in us a will to progress.

[(We hear Mother's clock chiming 8 o'clock ‒ beautiful melody in the background. We hear the sound of the younger children playing in another part of the playground, as always.)]


We know Mother had this experience ‒ the second experience of the supramental power in her body. And now, it's the 19th of September, 1956, one week later. Everyone's in class, and it's different...

19 September 1956[6]

[No questions? Me, I have a lot of papers, but no questions. A lot of papers, and no questions.]

Sweet Mother, I haven’t understood this well: “Will, Power, Force are the native substance of the Life-Energy, and herein lies the justification for the refusal of Life to acknowledge the supremacy of Knowledge and Love alone,—for its push towards the satisfaction of something far more unreflecting, headstrong and dangerous that can yet venture too in its own bold and ardent way towards the Divine and Absolute. Love and Wisdom are not the only aspects of the Divine, there is also its aspect of Power.”[7]

What have you not understood?

Sri Aurobindo says that the vital part, the vital being is the greatest obstacle because it is unregenerate, and that there would be a possibility of transforming it if it surrendered entirely to Love and Knowledge; but as its predominant quality is force, energy, power, it does not like to submit to other parts of the being, and this justifies its refusal to submit itself, for those virtues in their essence are as high as the others. That is why it has neither the same power nor the same capacities, for it is not developed, it has not surrendered, and this is what causes the dilemma: it does not submit because it has this power, and this power cannot be utilised because it is not surrendered. So, how to get out of that? The vital, if it were surrendered, would be a very powerful help, extremely useful, it would make the whole process go much more rapidly. But because it feels its own power, it refuses to submit to the others; and because it does not submit, its power cannot be utilised. So, what is to be done? Sri Aurobindo states the problem — he is going to solve it afterwards; if we continue reading, after a while he will tell us how to solve this problem — but he states it first so that we may fully understand the situation.

If the vital were a mediocre being without definite qualities, there would be no difficulty in its surrendering, but it would be altogether useless. But, on the contrary, the vital is a sort of stronghold of energy and power — of all powers. Yet generally this power is diverted; it is no longer at the service of the Divine, it is at the service of the vital itself for its own satisfaction. So, as long as it is like that, it cannot be used.

It should come to understand that this energy and power which it feels within itself cannot become useful unless it enters into perfect harmony with the divine plan of realisation on earth. If it understands that, it becomes quiet and allows itself to be enlisted, so to say, in the totality of the being, and then it takes on its full strength and full importance. But otherwise, it cannot be used. And usually, all its activities are activities which always complicate things and take away their simplicity, their purity, often their beauty, and their effectiveness, for its action is blind, ignorant and very egoistic.

Sweet Mother, is the divine plane the plane of the psychic being?

It is a higher plane than that of the psychic being. The psychic being is, so to say, the vehicle of the Divine, it contains the Divine, is the habitation of the Divine, but the Divine is higher than it. For the psychic being is only an aspect of the divine manifestation.

Is not the Supermind also the psychic being?

The Supermind is far higher than the psychic being also.

What Sri Aurobindo calls the Supermind is the element or the divine Principle which is now going to come into play in the universe. He calls it the Supermind because it comes after the mind, that is to say, it is a new manifestation of the supreme divine Principle. And it is related to the psychic as the Divine was related to the psychic, that is to say, the psychic is the home, the temple, the vehicle, everything that must outwardly manifest the Divine. But it is divine only in its essence not in its integrality. It is a mode of outer manifestation of the Divine, outer compared with the Divine, that is, terrestrial.

Is that all? Nothing else?

[(Long silence. We hear the children playing in the background.)]

[(From the packet of questions) The first question is like this:]

How should we come out of the physical consciousness which keeps us preoccupied all the time and exclusively with physical circumstances?


There is a considerable number of ways.

There are intellectual ways, ways which may be called sentimental, artistic ways and spiritual ways. And generally, it is preferable for each one to take the way that is easiest for him, for if one wants to begin straight away with the most difficult, one comes to nothing at all. And here we always come back to the same thing, to what Sri Aurobindo describes in The Synthesis of Yoga: it is the way of knowledge or the way of devotion or the way of works. But the way of works is precisely the one which keeps you in physical life and makes you find your liberation in it; and perhaps this is the most effective way of all but also the most difficult.

For most aspirants the way of meditation, concentration, withdrawal from physical life, rejection of physical activities is certainly easier than the way of action. But they leave the physical consciousness just as it is, without ever changing it, and unless one becomes like a sadhu or an ascetic who leaves behind all active life and remains in constant concentration or meditation, one achieves nothing at all. That is to say, an entire part of the being is never transformed. And for them the solution is not at all to transform it, it is simply to reject it, to get out of their body as quickly as possible. That is how yoga was conceived of formerly, for, obviously, it is much easier. But this is not what we want.

What we want is the transformation of the physical consciousness, not its rejection.

And so, in this case, what Sri Aurobindo has recommended as the most direct and most total way is surrender to the Divine — a surrendermademore and more integral, progressively, comprising the physical consciousness and physical activities. And if one succeeds in this, then the physical, instead of being an obstacle, becomes a help.

What does this sentence mean: “Look life in the face from the soul’s inner strength and become master of


That is precisely the opposite of the method which consists in rejecting the whole of the physical consciousness and all physical events. “Look life in the face”, this means: don’t turn your back on it! It means: face life as it is instead of running away from it and call to your aid the inner psychic force — this is what Sri Aurobindo says: “the soul’s inner strength”, the inner psychic force — and with the help of this psychic consciousness rise above circumstances and master them. That is to say, instead of submitting to all that comes and suffering all its consequences, one rises above circumstances and lets them pass like things that do not touch you and do not impair your consciousness. That is what it means.

It is said that to become conscious of divine Love all other love has to be abandoned. What is the best way of rejecting the other love which clings so obstinately (laughter) and does not easily leave us?

To go through it. Ah!

To go through, to see what is behind it, not to stop at the appearance, not to be satisfied with the outer form, to look for the principle which is behind this love, and not be content until one has found the origin of the feeling in oneself. Then the outer form will crumble of itself and you will be in contact with the divine Love which is behind all things.

That is the best way.

To want to get rid of the one in order to find the other is very difficult. It is almost impossible. For human nature is so limited, so full of contradictions and so exclusive in its movements that if one wants to reject love in its lower form, that is to say, human love as human beings experience it, if one makes an inner effort to reject it, one usually rejects the entire capacity of feeling love and becomes like a stone. And then sometimes one has to wait for years or centuries before there is a reawakening in oneself of the capacity to receive and manifest love.

Therefore, the best way when love comes, in whatever form it may be, is to try and pierce through its outer appearance and find the divine principle which is behind and which gives it existence. Naturally, it is full of snares and difficulties, but it is more effective. That is to say, instead of ceasing to love because one loves wrongly, one must cease to love wrongly and want to love well.

For instance, love between human beings, in all its forms, the love of parents for children, of children for parents, of brothers and sisters, of friends and lovers, is all tainted with ignorance, selfishness and all the other defects which are man’s ordinary drawbacks; so instead of completely ceasing to love — which, besides, is very difficult as Sri Aurobindo says, which would simply dry up the heart and serve no end — one must learn how to love better: to love with devotion, with self-giving, self-abnegation, and to struggle, not against love itself, but against its distorted forms: against all forms of monopolising, of attachment, possessiveness, jealousy, and all the feelings which accompany these main movements. Not to want to possess, to dominate; and not to want to impose one’s will, one’s whims, one’s desires; not to want to take, to receive, but to give; not to insist on the other’s response, but be contentwith one’s own love; not to seek one’s personal interest and joy and the fulfilment of one’s personal desire, but to be satisfied with the giving of one’s love and affection; and not to ask for any response. Simply to be happy to love, nothing more.

If you do that, you have taken a great stride forward and can, through this attitude, gradually advance farther in the feeling itself, and realise one day that love is not something personal, that love is a universal divine feeling which manifests through you more or less finely, but which in its essence is something divine.

The first step is to stop being selfish. For everyone it is the same thing, not only for those who want to do yoga but also in ordinary life: if one wants to know how to love, one must not love oneself first and above all selfishly; one must give oneself to the object of love without exacting anything in return. This discipline is elementary in order to surmount oneself and lead a life which is not altogether gross.

As for yoga we may add something else: it is as I said in the beginning, the will to pierce through this limited and human form of love and discover the principle of divine Love which is behind it. Then one is sure to get a result. This is better than drying up one’s heart. It is perhaps a little more difficult but it is better in every way, for like this, instead of egoistically making others suffer, well, one may leave them quiet in their own movement and only make an effort to transform oneself without imposing one’s will on others, which even in ordinary life is a step towards something higher and a little more harmonious.

Le 12 septembre 1956[8]

Douce Mère, est‑ce qu’on a le droit de poser des questions si on ne pratique pas ce que tu dis ?

On a toujours le droit de tout faire ! (rires) On peut poser toutes les questions que l’on veut. Pratiquer ? Au fond, c’est à chacun de choisir, n’est‑ce pas, s’il veut pratiquer ou s’il ne veut pas pratiquer, s’il considère que c’est utile ou non. C’est une chose que l’on ne peut pas imposer ; il faut qu’elle soit faite librement. Mais on peut toujours poser des questions.

Moi, je vais poser une question : « Pourquoi ne pratique‑t‑on pas ? » Tu le sais, toi, pourquoi on ne pratique pas ? (Mère demande à la ronde) Et toi ? Et toi ?... Bah ! Tu sais, toi ?

Peut-être parce qu’on est paresseux !

Ça, c’est l’une des principales raisons. Et alors, on couvre sa paresse de bonnes raisons, dont la première consiste à dire : « Je ne peux pas, je ne sais pas » ou bien : « J’ai essayé et je n’ai pas réussi » ou bien : « Je ne sais pas par quel bout commencer ! » N’importe quelle raison, n’est‑ce pas, la première qui se présente à vous. Ou bien alors, on ne pratique pas parce qu’on ne trouve pas que cela vaut la peine de faire l’effort — cela fait partie de la paresse aussi, cela demande trop d’effort ! Mais on ne peut pas vivre sans effort ! Si l’on se refusait à tout effort, on ne pourrait même pas se tenir sur ses jambes, ni marcher, ni même manger.

Moi, je crois que l’on ne pratique pas, d’abord parce que cela n’a pas une réalité assez concrète pour dominer les autres choses de la vie ; parce que l’effort paraît disproportionné au résultat. Mais ce genre d’effort est seulement un commencement : une fois que l’on est dedans, ce n’est plus le même.

(S’adressant à l’enfant) Et alors, pose ta question, même si tu ne pratiques pas !

Non, je n’ai pas de question, Douce Mère.

Oh ! c’était seulement cela ta question ! Tu voulais dire : « Est-il honnête de poser des questions et puis de ne rien faire de ce que l’on vous dit ? » C’est cela ?

Oui, Mère.


(Un disciple) Nous avons encore cet atavisme d’avoir besoin d’être forcés pour faire quelque chose. Dès notre enfance nous avons été forcés de faire les choses. Ici, c’est juste le contraire.

Forcés ? Oh ! alors on ne fait pas quand on n’est pas forcé ! Mais une chose que l’on fait par force n’a pas de valeur.

C’est tout ? Tu n’as pas de question, toi ?... J’en ai beaucoup, mais elles sont ou trop spéciales ou trop générales ! Ou alors, justement, elles ne sont intéressantes que pour les gens qui sont anxieux de pratiquer.

Qu’est‑ce que vous avez envie d’entendre ?... (silence) Rien, vous voyez, vous ne dites rien. Alors c’est très bon, je ne dis rien !

(Un enfant) quelque chose pour éveiller en nous une volonté de progresser.


Le 19 septembre 1956[9]

Douce Mère, ici je n’ai pas bien compris : « ... la Volonté, le Pouvoir, la Force, sont la substance même de l’Énergie de Vie, sa substance innée, et c’est ce qui fait la justification de la Vie quand elle refuse de reconnaître l’exclusive suprématie de la Connaissance et de l’Amour car elle s’élance avec fougue pour satisfaire quelque chose de beaucoup plus irréfléchi et de plus dangereux, plus indomptable, mais qui pourtant sait aussi s’aventurer, à sa façon audacieuse et ardente, vers le Divin et l’Absolu. L’Amour et la Sagesse ne sont pas les seuls aspects du Divin ; il y a aussi son aspect de Pouvoir. »

Qu’est‑ce que tu n’as pas compris ?

Sri Aurobindo dit que la partie vitale, l’être vital, est l’obstacle le plus grand parce qu’il n’est pas régénéré, et qu’il y aurait une possibilité de le transformer s’il se soumettait entièrement à l’Amour et à la Connaissance ; mais comme sa qualité prédominante est la force, l’énergie, le pouvoir, il n’aime pas se soumettre à d’autres parties de l’être, et cela légitime son refus de se soumettre, parce que ces vertus-là, dans leur essence, sont aussi hautes que les autres. C’est pour cela qu’il n’a ni le même pouvoir, ni les mêmes capacités, parce qu’il n’est pas développé, parce qu’il ne s’est pas soumis, et c’est cela qui fait le dilemme : il ne se soumet pas parce qu’il a ce pouvoir, et ce pouvoir est inutilisable parce qu’il n’est pas soumis. Alors comment en sortir ? Le vital, s’il était soumis, serait une aide très puissante, extrêmement utile, il ferait marcher tout le processus beaucoup plus rapidement. Mais parce qu’il sent son pouvoir, il refuse de se soumettre aux autres ; et parce qu’il ne se soumet pas, son pouvoir est inutilisable. Alors comment faire ? Sri Aurobindo pose le problème (il va le résoudre après si nous continuons à lire, après un certain temps il nous dira comment sortir de ce problème), mais il le pose d’abord pour que nous comprenions très bien la situation.

Si le vital était un être médiocre et sans qualités propres, il n’y aurait pas de difficultés à ce qu’il se soumette, mais il serait tout à fait inutile. Tandis qu’au contraire, le vital est une sorte de forteresse d’énergie et de pouvoir — de tous les pouvoirs. Mais généralement ce pouvoir est dévoyé ; il n’est plus au service du Divin, il est au service du vital lui-même pour sa propre satisfaction. Alors tant qu’il est comme cela, il ne peut pas être utilisé.

Il faudrait qu’il comprenne que cette énergie et ce pouvoir qu’il sent en lui ne peuvent devenir utiles que s’il entre en accord parfait avec le plan divin de réalisation sur la terre. S’il comprend cela, alors il se calme et se laisse enrégimenter, pour ainsi dire, dans l’ensemble de l’être, et alors il prend sa pleine puissance et sa pleine importance. Mais autrement, il est inutilisable. Et généralement, toutes ses activités sont toujours des activités qui compliquent les choses et qui leur enlèvent leur simplicité, leur pureté, leur beauté souvent, et leur efficacité, parce que son action est aveugle, ignorante et très égoïste.

Douce Mère, est‑ce que le plan divin est le plan de l’être psychique ?

C’est un plan supérieur à l’être psychique. L’être psychique est pour ainsi dire le véhicule du Divin, il contient le Divin, il est l’habitation du Divin, mais le Divin lui est supérieur. Parce que l’être psychique n’est qu’un aspect de la manifestation divine.

Le Supramental n’est-il pas aussi l’être psychique ?

Le Supramental est très supérieur à l’être psychique aussi.

Ce que Sri Aurobindo appelle le Supramental, c’est l’élément ou le Principe divin qui va maintenant entrer en jeu dans l’univers. Il l’appelle le Supramental parce qu’il vient après le mental, c’est-à-dire que c’est une manifestation nouvelle du Principe divin suprême. Et il est en relation avec le psychique comme le Divin était en relation avec le psychique, c’est-à-dire que le psychique est la maison, le temple, le véhicule, tout ce qui doit manifester extérieurement le Divin. Mais il est divin seulement dans son essence, pas dans son intégralité. Il est un mode de manifestation extérieure du Divin, extérieur par rapport au Divin, c’est-à-dire terrestre.

C’est tout ? Rien d’autre ?

Comment sortir de la conscience physique qui nous garde préoccupé tout le temps et exclusivement des circonstances physiques ?

Il y a une quantité considérable de moyens.

Il y a des moyens intellectuels, des moyens que l’on pourrait appeler sentimentaux, des moyens artistiques et des moyens spirituels. Et généralement, il est préférable pour chacun de prendre le moyen qui lui est le plus facile, parce que si l’on veut commencer tout de suite par le plus difficile, on n’arrive à rien du tout. Et nous en revenons toujours à la même chose, à ce que Sri Aurobindo décrit dans La Synthèse des Yogas : c’est le moyen de la connaissance, ou le moyen de la dévotion, ou le moyen des oeuvres. Mais le moyen des oeuvres, c’est justement celui qui vous maintient dans la vie physique et qui vous fait vous libérer en elle ; et peut-être est‑ce le moyen de tous le plus efficace, mais aussi le plus difficile.

Pour la plupart des aspirants, le moyen de la méditation, de la concentration, de l’abstraction de la vie physique, du rejet des activités physiques est certainement plus facile que le moyen de l’action. Mais ils laissent la conscience physique telle qu’elle est, sans jamais la changer, et à moins que l’on ne devienne comme le sâdhu ou l’ascète qui sort de toute vie active et reste dans une concentration ou une méditation constantes, on n’arrive à rien du tout. C’est-à-dire que toute une partie de l’être n’est jamais transformée. Et pour eux, la solution n’est pas du tout de la transformer, c’est simplement de la rejeter, de sortir de leur corps aussi vite que possible. C’était comme cela que l’on concevait le yoga dans le temps, parce que, évidemment, c’est beaucoup plus facile. Mais ce n’est pas ce que nous voulons.

Ce que nous voulons, c’est la transformation de la conscience physique, ce n’est pas son rejet.

Et alors, dans ce cas-là, ce que Sri Aurobindo a préconisé comme le moyen le plus direct et le plus total, c’est la soumission au Divin ; une soumission que l’on fait de plus en plus intégrale, progressivement, y compris la conscience physique et les activités physiques. Et si l’on réussit cela, alors le physique, au lieu d’être un obstacle, devient une aide.

Que veut dire cette phrase : « Regardez la vie en face avec la force intérieure de l’âme et devenez maître des circonstances » ?

C’est justement l’opposé de la méthode qui consiste à rejeter toute la conscience physique et tous les événements physiques. « Regardez la vie en face », cela veut dire : ne lui tournez pas le dos ! Cela veut dire : faites face à la vie telle qu’elle est au lieu de vous enfuir, et appelez à votre aide la force psychique intérieure — c’est ce que dit Sri Aurobindo : « la force intérieure de l’âme », la force psychique intérieure — et à l’aide de cette conscience psychique, élevez-vous au-dessus des circonstances et maîtrisez-les. C’est-à-dire qu’au lieu d’être soumis à tout ce qui arrive et d’en subir toutes les conséquences, on s’élève au-dessus des circonstances et on les laisse passer comme des choses qui ne vous touchent point et qui ne détériorent pas votre conscience. Voilà ce que cela veut dire.

On dit que « pour devenir conscient de l’Amour divin, tous les autres amours doivent être abandonnés ». Quel est le meilleur moyen de rejeter l’autre amour qui s’obstine beaucoup (rires) et ne nous quitte pas facilement ?

Passer au travers, ah !

Passer au travers, voir ce qui est derrière lui, ne pas s’arrêter à l’apparence, ne pas se satisfaire de la forme extérieure, chercher le principe qui est derrière cet amour, et ne se satisfaire que quand on a trouvé l’origine du sentiment en soi. Alors, la forme extérieure tombera d’elle-même et vous serez en contact avec l’Amour divin qui est derrière tout.

C’est la meilleure façon.

Vouloir rejeter l’un pour trouver l’autre est très difficile. C’est presque impossible. Parce que la nature humaine est si limitée, si pleine de contradictions et si exclusive dans ses mouvements que si l’on veut rejeter l’amour sous sa forme inférieure, c’està-dire l’amour humain tel que les êtres humains l’éprouvent, si l’on fait des efforts intérieurs pour rejeter cela, généralement on rejette entièrement la capacité de sentir l’amour et on devient comme une pierre. Et alors, quelquefois il faut attendre des années, ou des siècles, pour que se réveille en soi la capacité de recevoir et de manifester l’amour.

Par conséquent, le meilleur moyen quand l’amour vient, sous quelque forme que ce soit, c’est de tâcher de percer à travers son apparence extérieure pour aller trouver le Principe divin qui est derrière et qui le fait exister. Naturellement, c’est plein de pièges et de difficultés, mais c’est plus efficace. C’est-à-dire qu’au lieu de cesser d’aimer parce qu’on aime mal, il faut cesser d’aimer mal et vouloir aimer bien.

Par exemple, l’amour entre créatures humaines, sous toutes les formes, l’amour des parents pour les enfants, des enfants pour les parents, des frères et soeurs, des amis et des amants, est tout entaché d’ignorance, d’égoïsme et de tous les autres défauts qui sont les défauts ordinaires de l’homme. Alors au lieu de cesser d’aimer complètement — ce qui est d’ailleurs très difficile comme Sri Aurobindo le dit, ce qui simplement dessécherait le coeur et ne servirait à rien —, il faut apprendre à mieux aimer : aimer dans le dévouement, dans le don de soi, dans l’abnégation, et lutter, non contre l’amour lui-même, mais contre ses formes déformées. Contre toutes les formes d’accaparement, d’attachement, de possession, de jalousie, et tous les sentiments qui accompagnent ces choses principales. Ne pas vouloir posséder, dominer ; et ne pas vouloir imposer sa volonté, ses caprices, ses désirs ; ne pas vouloir prendre, recevoir, mais vouloir donner ; ne pas insister sur la réponse de l’autre, mais se satisfaire dans son propre amour ; ne pas chercher son intérêt et sa joie personnelle et l’accomplissement de son désir personnel, mais se satisfaire dans le don de son amour et de son affection ; et ne pas demander de réponse. Simplement être heureux d’aimer, rien de plus.

Si l’on fait cela, on a avancé d’un grand pas et on peut, à travers cette attitude, petit à petit, avancer plus loin dans le sentiment lui-même, et s’apercevoir un jour que l’amour n’est pas une chose personnelle, que l’amour est un sentiment divin universel, qui se manifeste à travers vous plus ou moins bien, mais qui dans son essence est une chose divine.

Le premier pas, c’est de cesser d’être égoïste. Pour tout le monde c’est la même chose, non seulement pour ceux qui veulent faire un yoga, mais dans la vie ordinaire : si on veut savoir aimer, il ne faut pas s’aimer soi-même d’abord et surtout d’une façon égoïste ; il faut se donner à l’objet de l’amour, sans exiger rien en réponse. C’est cette discipline-là qui est élémentaire pour se surmonter soi-même et mener une vie qui ne soit pas une vie tout à fait grossière.

Pour le yoga, on peut y ajouter quelque chose d’autre ; c’est comme je l’ai dit en commençant, la volonté de percer à travers cette forme limitée et humaine de l’amour pour découvrir le principe d’Amour divin qui est derrière. Alors on est sûr d’arriver à un résultat. Cela vaut mieux que de se dessécher le coeur. C’est peut-être un peu plus difficile, mais c’est meilleur de toute façon, parce que comme cela, au lieu de faire souffrir les autres égoïstement, eh bien, on peut les laisser tranquilles dans leur mouvement propre, et ne faire effort que pour se transformer soi-même — sans imposer sa volonté aux autres, ce qui même dans la vie ordinaire est un pas vers quelque chose d’un peu supérieur et d’un peu plus harmonieux.

  1. Words of the Mother - I, p.52
  2. Ibid.
  3. Agenda, 12 September 1956
  4. Questions and Answers 1956, p.301
  5. Ibid, p.295
  6. Ibid., p.297
  7. The Synthesis of Yoga, p.174, “The Ascent of the Sacrifice – 2: The Works of Love—The Works of Life”
  8. Entretiens 1956, p.329
  9. Ibid., p.331