The Future of the Soul (Radio program)
Good evening everyone. Welcome to the second of our five lectures. Last week, we heard a recording of the Mother speaking in 1958, giving her report on the Supramental Ship. Mother's consciousness was in the subtle physical, in the link that was being prepared between our two worlds: the supramental world and our world.
We're going to jump a full twelve years to the point where the Mother has this experience with her consciousness fully in her room, wide awake, with her eyes open. At this point Mother is ninety-two years old; she's worked all her life to bring down this new force, and to bring up this new force, and to have everything pervaded with this new force.
We can see the progress in these twelve years. The Supramental Ship, Mother's experience, showed that the most material supramental was coming into the most material of our physical world. Now twelve years later, it's at all levels. It's in the psychic being and the psychic being governs every part of us. And every part of our lives, if we can get that far with it.
So this recording is like unbelievable good news. Because it takes away so many doubts, and it opens up so many doors to understand that a part of us that's been there all along, and that more and more comes into our lives, is what is going to carry us on, and is going to become the supramental being.
The mystery is gone. The gap of 'Oh my God, what is it, we don't know, oh no...' – it's gone. The way is simply opened up and made clear.
So what is a soul? There's the soul – the all-consciousness. And then there's the individual soul, which Mother termed the psychic being. She called it l'être psychique, which is the French term. It's also the term from the Greek, if you may all remember the story of Cupid and Psyche – Cupid and the soul.
The best way I think, to say what a soul is – because they've said what a soul is thousands and thousands of times over the history of so many cultures – is to call it love. So, we're going to call it the All-Love. And some little tiny part of the All-Love somehow forgets its all-ness, and grows back to become itself again. To gain the consciousness of itself as the all. As the full soul.
So for love, Love forgets itself, to become love, to receive love, to radiate love. And Mother has said that the supramental is love. And the essence of love itself.
Next week, we will hear Mother speak of an experience that she has where she becomes the origin of the manifestation, and that origin is tremendous pulsations of love. And most amazingly she's going to speak in English – to give us that experience.
So Mother and Sri Aurobindo always taught that it's much better to aim to realise our soul first, because that helps us in the practice of the Yoga.
They concentrated so much on the soul – we have many books, we have many compilations, talking about the psychic being, talking about realising the soul – but all through the years, Mother never bothered to think about what the psychic being looked like. The Agenda is full of speculation on what the supramental being looked like – how it would function, what would its parts be. But nobody ever talked about what the psychic being would look like. And suddenly, it shows itself to Mother and it says, “Well, you wanted to know – here it is! This is it!”
How do we recognise in ourselves the soul that we are? Mother gives a really – a very sweet, particular advice. We, as a person, as a small child, we are a person. And we know ourselves, we recognise ourselves, we feel ourselves. And when we grow many years later, we are a totally different person. We're not at all that small child. And yet, that small child, we know that small child. And that part of us that knows that small child – that's the soul. Because the consciousness of the soul is an eternal consciousness, and keeps the line. So we already have at least some sense of it.
Mother says that anyone who seeks the Divine, who has reached the point in their own progress where they are looking for the Divine – and especially, anyone who is involved in the practice of the Yoga – already has an awakened soul. Now we know, that if we have this aspiration, if we are longing to follow this, to be close to Mother, to have these realisations – now we know it's our psychic being that does it. And this psychic being that we now know is going to grow and grow and grow, and we are going to eventually become the supramental being.
So can we invoke the soul? Can we call up the soul? Sri Aurobindo does it in his writings all the time. At the end of this talk, we're going to hear a recording, made twelve years before the one we're going to first hear, where Mother tells the children of the Ashram how they can find their soul. And you feel in Mother's voice her own consciousness – it evokes the soul. It brings it forward for us.
And there's one particular part in Savitri that seems to just bring the soul into the room. It comes at the point where Savitri is looking for her soul. It's in Book 7, The Book of Yoga – Savitri's yoga. And it's in Canto 3, at the very end of Canto 3, “The Entry into the Inner Countries”. And Savitri is getting closer and closer and as she's going, she sees these beautiful beings come past her. Special, beautiful beings. And she turns to them and she says, “Oh, I know you must be coming from the soul; tell me where you're coming from.” And they give her this advice:
- “O human copy and disguise of God
- Who seekst the deity thou keepest hid
- And livest by the Truth thou hast not known,
- Follow the world’s winding highway to its source.
- There in the silence few have ever reached,
- Thou shalt see the Fire burning on the bare stone
- And the deep cavern of thy secret soul.”
- Then Savitri following the great winding road
- Came where it dwindled into a narrow path
- Trod only by rare wounded pilgrim feet.
- A few bright forms emerged from unknown depths
- And looked at her with calm immortal eyes.
- There was no sound to break the brooding hush;
- One felt the silent nearness of the soul.
In this recording, Mother gives us the name of the person whose soul she saw. This was one of her disciples; her name was Rijuta. She was from America. And I remember Rijuta, in the 1970s when I was living in Golconde, because Rijuta had a house just across the street. And Rijuta was a very small woman; she kept her hair cut very short, and she always wore starched white shirt and white shorts. Very clean. And she didn't talk to anybody. She was very concentrated – and of course I always wanted to talk to her – and her atmosphere was such that you couldn't. She was very, very private. So when I found out that it was Rijuta that Mother saw, I started asking, and I managed to get a good deal of her history.
She came in 1955, and she came with her husband. She was on her honeymoon – she had just been married. And everyone that I spoke with said that they were a very close, very loving couple. She saw the Mother, and Mother sent them to live in Golconde. And the Golconde records show that she came on December 24th, 1955, and it's marked: “Mother's guest.”
Well, Rijuta after seeing the mother refused to leave. She wouldn't go away. And her husband was a seagoing man. And so they shifted their whole life to the Ashram. She was called Patricia Lohman; her husband was Michael Lohman. And Mother gave her the name Rijuta, which means 'straight'.
Rijuta lived in Golconde until May of 1960. That's four years. Her room was in 2-West-1. And for those of you who haven't been to Golconde, it's very practical – “2” is the second floor, “West” is the western end of the building, and “1” is the first room. And it means the first room way at the end of the hall. So nobody walked past Rijuta's room; she was totally isolated. And in those days, in the fifties, it was very quiet. There wasn't any sound, there wasn't noise, it was an extremely silent place.
And the Golconde rules, which are still there, don't allow guests. So Rijuta, this bride, this girl on her honeymoon, who left everything for the Mother, went into a totally new life. Her husband built her this house across the street. And while the house was being built, Rijuta told Michael that she would not be involved in any wifely duties at all. She wouldn't cook; she wouldn't clean; and Michael built her a room on the top of the house where she lived. Her meals came from the dining room, and her clothes were cleaned by the Ashram laundry, and she had a servant pick up these things and deliver them to her.
All the Ashramites that I spoke with had the same experience as I did. Rijuta was quiet, reserved, she didn't speak with anyone, she never socialized – but she was a very nice person.
Michael stayed devoted to the Mother and to Rijuta. He gave a lot of money to Mother. At one time he wanted to buy the Mother a very expensive car.
So Rijuta worked in several places in the Ashram; she worked in the Press, and she was one of Mother's secretaries for foreign correspondance. So it may have been that this was the reason she was in Mother's room on July 1st, 1970, when we're going to hear what happened.
This thing that happened to Mother which was recorded was transcribed and came out in the Bulletin – the Ashram Bulletin of the Sri Aurobindo Centre of Education – and Mother's experience – Mother would choose certain of her experiences with Satprem for publication, and when this came out in the Bulletin, Rijuta told a coworker, “That's me!” She said, “I heard Mother say 'Ah!' She was looking at me. And then she said, 'Your psychic being is very much in the forefront.'”
Michael Lohman passed away in 1975 in another part of India. And Rijuta left the Ashram for America in 1986, because she was having problems with her knee.
She must have been a really very special person. I mean her story is the classical Indian guru story: the disciple is searching for the guru, or the disciple meets the guru, and it's the end of the life that they knew – and they go on to serve the guru for the realisation that the guru promises. This is exactly what Rijuta did.
Before this experience, Mother had another experience with Rijuta. She was in Mother's room and there was a column of light that Mother said was the supramental light. And Mother watched this light move over Rijuta, and saw that Rijuta's body had some density – there was some darkness. And then that light moved over Mother, and Mother was completely clear – the light passed right through her.
And then after this experience that we're about to hear, Mother had another experience when Rijuta was in the room. Mother experienced the whole universe become one point in the room. And it was at the same time the eternal consciousness – universal and yet one point – and Mother said it showed her the universal consciousness returning to the divine consciousness.
So now, we are going to the Ashram. We're going to hear Mother tell us what her experience was. The Sanskrit definition of an ashram – at least one of them, I'm sure there are more than one – is 'the home of a holy person'. And the Ashram was Sri Aurobindo's home and Mother's home. We all came there knowing it was Mother's home and we came as disciples – we came for guidance and we came for help. And we came to participate in this tremendous change that was going on.
We all waited eagerly for the publication of Mother's experiences in the Bulletin, and then we would talk about them and speculate about them.
So at this point, Mother is ninety-two. And she has spent so much of her life transforming the whole earth, taking into her body so many things, and she says more than once that her body is a great battlefield. And sometimes she gets quite ill.
Sitting down in the Samadhi, we could hear her talking in her room. And sometimes we could hear when she wasn't strong. And we could hear how she was doing. And we would all sit there and send her love, and be so so very concerned.
Three days before this, on June 27th, in the Agenda there's a note that Mother's face was swollen with an abscessed tooth. And she says that she was shifting back and forth in her consciousness between the ordinary physical consciousness and divine bliss. And that sometimes the pain was so bad that the body felt it wanted to cry out.
So we can hear in Mother's voice the effort that she makes to speak, and we can hear that she's short of breath. But we can also hear in her voice this unbelievable determination and this inner strength to give us our path. To give us these teachings. And all of us have felt so glad just to hear anything that she has said.
Three days later, Satprem asks her to add to this information and she starts laughing and she makes a joke. So we will hear now both of these recordings. I'm going to read them in small increments in English for the people who don't follow French. And then when we play Mother's recording you can just take the essence of it without having to worry about what she said.
So, Satprem and Sujata come in and sit down. And we are also there. And we hear Mother say:
- “I had an experience which I found interesting, because it was the first time. It was yesterday or the day before (I forget), Rijuta. was here, just in front of me, kneeling, and I saw her psychic being towering above her by this much (gesture about eight inches), taller. It's the first time. Her physical being was short, and the psychic being was tall, like this. And it was a sexless being: neither man nor woman. So I said to myself (it may be always that way, I don't know, but at that time I noticed it very clearly), I said to myself, 'But the psychic being is the one that will materialize and become the supramental being!'”
- “J'ai eu une expérience qui était pour moi intéressante parce que c'était la première fois. C'était hier ou avant-hier, je ne me souviens plus, Rijuta était là juste en face de moi, à genoux, et j'ai vu son être psychique qui la dominait d'autant (environ 20cm), plus grand. C'est la première fois. Son être physique était petit, et l'être psychique était grand comme cela. Et c'était un être insexué: ni homme ni femme. Alors je me suis dit (il est possible que ce soit toujours comme cela, je n'en sais rien, mais là, je l'ai remarqué très nettement), je me suis dit: «Mais l'être psychique, c'est cela qui se matérialisera et deviendra l'être supramental!»”
- “I saw it, it was like that. There were distinctive features, but not very pronounced, and it was clearly a being that was neither male nor female, that had features of both combined. And it was taller than her, it exceeded her on every side by about this much (gesture extending beyond the physical being by about eight inches). She was here, and it was like this (gesture). Its color was ... this color that, if it became very material, would be Auroville's color [orange]. It was softer, as if behind a veil, it wasn't absolutely precise, but it was this color. And there was hair, but ... it was something else.”
- “Je l'ai vu, c'était comme cela. Il y avait des particularités mais ce n'était pas très marqué, et c'était nettement un être qui n'était ni homme ni femme, qui avait la caractéristique des deux combinés. Et il était plus grand qu'elle, il la dépassait de partout, à peu près de ça (geste débordant le corps physique d'environ 20cm). Elle était là et il était comme ça (geste). Et il avait cette couleur... cette couleur... qui, si elle devenait très matérielle, serait la couleur d'Auroville [orange]. C'était plus atténué, comme derrière un voile, ce n'était pas d'une précision absolue, mais c'était cette couleur-là. Et il y avait des cheveux, mais... C'était autre chose.”
- “Another time maybe I'll see better.
- But I found it very interesting, because that being seemed to tell me, 'You're wondering what the supramental being will be – here it is! Here it is, this is it.' And it was there. It was her psychic being.”
- “Je verrai mieux une autre fois peut-être.
- Mais cela m'a beaucoup intéressée parce que c'était comme si cet être me disait: «Mais tu es en train de chercher ce que sera l'être supramental — le voilà! Le voilà, c'est ça.» Et il était là. C'était son être psychique.”
- “Then one understands. One understands [that] the psychic being will materialize ... and it gives a continuity to evolution.
- This creation gives you a clear impression that nothing is arbitrary, that there is a sort of divine logic behind, which isn't like our human logic, but highly superior to our logic (but it exists), and that logic was fully satisfied when I saw that.
- It's odd, it was also when Rijuta was here that I had that experience of the supramental light going through within without causing any shadow. Rijuta has something like that, I don't know.... And this time, it's really interesting. I was quite interested. It was there, tranquil, and saying to me, 'But you're after ... well, here it is, this is it!'”
- “Alors, on comprend. On comprend: l'être psychique se matérialise... et ça donne une continuité à l'évolution.
- Cette création donne tout à fait l'impression qu'il n'y a pas d'arbitraire, qu'il y a une espèce de logique divine qui est derrière, qui n'est pas comme notre logique humaine mais qui est très supérieure à notre logique (mais il y en a une), et celle-là était pleinement satisfaite quand j'ai vu cela.
- C'est curieux, c'était aussi quand Rijuta était là que j'ai eu cette expérience de la lumière supramentale qui est passée dedans [en Mère] sans faire d'ombre. Rijuta a quelque chose qui est comme cela, je ne sais pas... Et cette fois-ci, c'est vraiment intéressant. J'étais tout à fait intéressée. C'était là, tranquille, et il me disait: «Mais tu cherches... eh bien, le voilà, mais c'est ça!»”
- “So then, I understood why the mind and the vital were sent away from this body, and the psychic being was left (naturally, it was the psychic being that governed all movements earlier, so it was nothing new, but there were no more difficulties: all the complications coming from the vital and the mind, which add their imprints, their tendencies, it was all gone). So I understood: 'Ah, that's it, it's this psychic being that is to become the supramental being.'”
- “Et alors, j'ai compris pourquoi on a renvoyé le mental et le vital de ce corps, et on a laissé l'être psychique (naturellement, c'était lui qui gouvernait tous les mouvements avant, alors ce n'était rien de nouveau, mais il n'y avait plus de difficultés: toutes les complications qui viennent du vital et du mental, qui ajoutent leurs impressions, leurs tendances, c'était tout parti). Alors, j'ai compris: «Ah! c'est ça, c'est cet être psychique qui doit devenir l'être supramental.»”
- “I had never bothered to know what it looked like. But when I saw that, I understood. And I see it, I still see it, I have kept the memory. Its hair almost looked red, strangely (it wasn't like red hair, but it looked like it). And its expression! Such a fine expression, gently ironical ... oh, extraordinary, extraordinary!”
- “Mais je ne m'étais jamais occupée de savoir comment était son apparence. Et quand j'ai vu ça, j'ai compris. Et je le vois, je le vois encore, j'ai gardé le souvenir. C'était presque comme si ses cheveux étaient roux, c'est curieux (mais ce n'était pas comme des cheveux roux, mais c'était comme cela). Et son expression! une expression si fine et doucement ironique... oh! extraordinaire-extraordinaire.”
- “You understand, my eyes were open, it was an almost material vision.”
- “Et tu comprends, j'avais les yeux ouverts, c'était une vision presque matérielle.”
- “Then one understands! All at once, all questions vanished, it became very clear, very simple.”
- “Alors, on comprend! Tout d'un coup, toutes les questions sont parties, c'est devenu très clair, très simple.”
- “And the psychic is precisely what lives on. So if it materialized, it means doing away with death. But 'doing away' ... what's done away with is only what's not according to the Truth, that's what goes away – all that's incapable of being transformed in the image of the psychic, of being part of the psychic.
- That's really interesting.”
- “Et le psychique, c'est justement ce qui survit. Alors s'il se matérialise, c'est la suppression de la mort. Mais «suppression»... il n'y a de supprimé que tout ce qui n'est pas selon la Vérité, qui s'en va — tout ce qui n'est pas capable de se transformer à l'image du psychique et de faire partie du psychique.
- C'est vraiment intéressant.”
Three days later, Satprem and Sujata come back, and Satprem wants to know more. Now the translation that you have there, which comes from the Agenda, doesn't have everything that's on the tape. So, I'm going to read everything that we hear, but you – it's just a couple of things, but it's – as such it's very sweet.
It starts out, Satprem says, “I wondered if we couldn't add to the "Notes" what you said last time.”
And then the next part of the sentence that you see written there is actually not there. And then, Mother starts laughing. And Satprem starts laughing. And he's surprised, and he says, “Why?” And Mother goes on laughing. And she says something that I couldn't catch but she's still laughing.
Then Mother asks, “What I said last time?”
And Satprem says, “About Rijuta – this psychic being that will become the supramental being.”
And Mother says to him, she asks, “What do you say?”
And Satprem says, “I say it's important!”
And Mother says, “Yes!... I mean about the effect.... I am afraid everyone will suddenly ... have a psychic being!”
And everyone just starts to laugh, and finally Satprem says “Oh Mother,” he says “Oh Mother, you are unique.” (And here they've written “Mother, you're priceless”, but he says “unique”.)
Mother is still laughing and then she says, “Never mind!... It's all right.... It'll cause a stir.”
- “…Qu'est-ce que tu en dis?”
- “Je dis que c'est important!”
- C'est au point de vue de l'effet... J'ai peur que tout le monde tout d'un coup... ait un être psychique!” (rire général)
- “Ah! Mère, tu es unique!”
- (Mère rit) “Mais ça ne fait rien!... C'est bien... Ça va faire des remous.”
So, in fact it was published in the Bulletin, sometime in August. And I don't know if everyone suddenly had a psychic being, but there's no report of it in the Agenda.
So, we do have a kind of comparison between last week's experience and this week's experience. As I said before, in 1958 Mother only experienced the supramental coming into the subtle physical and moving into our most material physical – and she has to go out of her body to do it. Now she's in her room, eyes open, natural vision. She sees a material substance of a similar color in both of these experiences. The beings that were supramentalised enough to disembark from the Supramental Ship – through and through their color was a luminous orange. And now the psychic being that she sees has the color of Auroville, which is a shade of orange.
Before it's only the most material supramental and the most material physical; now it's the whole spectrum. Mental, vital, physical: everything.
This is really an incredible gift for us. Suddenly the idea of the Supermind and the transformation is no more a far away dark mystery. It's just a continuation of us. Of our growth and our progress, of every part of us that's wonderful, and helpful, and healthy, and full of love and goodness. And so now we have the key. We've always had the key. And the door is open. And we've always been walking on that road.
Mother says continually that it's us. It's our essence that continues to change. We're different today than we were five years ago; we go on without a break. Doing away with death is no longer difficult or unknown. Mother is speaking here from the standpoint of the psychic being which knows this. Our psychic being knows this, and our psychic being will continue. Whatever mysterious unknown thing we might have thought we have to do to do away with death – that isn't there. It's gonna happen automatically.
Mother says that all things in life tend toward manifestation. And that can be a two-edged sword, because there are things in life that we don't want to manifest. But this we definitely do want to manifest, and that's the natural tendency of our world. All things in life do tend toward manifestation. And on some level it's only that we just be careful not to get in the way.
So what else can we do to bring the psychic being forward? In all time-honored spiritual teachings, there are instructions and guidance about bringing forward our soul, though not in these terms. Mother and Sri Aurobindo's advice is not necessarily different, but it's certainly clearer. It's much more organised and understandable, and we now know its most important purpose.
And Mother and Sri Aurobindo's advice carries their force. Because everything about them carries the living vibration of the love of this Supermind that we are all moving towards.
I can give here really one very simple and nice example that she gave the children. At night in bed, before you go to sleep, if you pass all the events of your day before the highest light of your being, it will change you, and it will change you very quickly.
And it's pretty clear, the highest light of our being is that supramental consciousness – whatever is good, is wonderful, is love; is open, is wide, is vast, is deep.
In some way, Mother is bringing us hints of the supramental being, because she's going to speak now about the psychic being. She's going to tell the children how to find the psychic being. And she describes it: warm, quiet, rich in substance, very full, something complete, something that is eternal. So we're going to hear her words – we're going to hear her words say that.
And again, we receive the impression that the best thing for us to do, every day and all day long, is to love, to give, to be happy, to be open, to avoid negativity, to be peaceful. Mother says, “In Peace and Silence the Eternal manifests”. 
People who don't know French can hear her voice go more quiet on certain words: words like 'descend', she says, “descendre, descendre, descendre, descendre, descendre...” very quiet and soft. And then 'far', going 'far within', the French word is 'loin'; we hear her say “loin, loin, loin, loin, loin...”. And then 'deep', the word profondément, “profondément, profondément, profondément...”, deeper and deeper.
So after that, as we feel, we can sit quietly and if anybody has any questions I'm happy to try to answer them.
So, we're back in the Ashram Playground, it's 1958, Mother is eighty years old, but this is what we're going to hear:
- “To perceive the soul in someone, as a rule the mind must be very quiet—very quiet, for when it is active, its vibrations are seen, not the vibration of the soul.
- And then, when you look at someone who is conscious of his soul, and lives in his soul, if you look like this, the impression you have is of descending, of entering deep, deep, deep,” (profondément, profondément, profondément) “...deep, deep, deep into the person, far, far, far, far within;” (loin, loin, loin, loin...)
- “Pour percevoir l’âme dans quelqu’un, généralement il faut avoir le mental très tranquille — très tranquille parce que, quand il est actif, ce sont ses vibrations que l’on voit, ce n’est pas la vibration de l’âme.
- Et alors, quand on regarde quelqu’un qui est conscient de son âme et qui vit dans son âme, si l’on regarde comme cela, l’impression que l’on a, c’est de descendre, d’entrer profondément, profondément, profondément dans la personne, loin, loin, loin, loin dedans;”<Entretiens 1957-1958, p.345, Le 9 avril 1958</ref>
- “...while usually when you look into someone’s eyes, you very soon come to a surface which vibrates and answers your look, but you don’t have that feeling of going down, down, down, down, going deep as into a hole and very far, very, very, very far within, so you have... a small, very quiet response. Otherwise, usually you enter—there are eyes you cannot enter, they are closed like a door; but still there are eyes which are open—you enter and then, quite close behind, you come to something vibrating there, like this, shining at times, vibrating. And then, that’s it; if you make a mistake, you say, 'Oh! He has a living soul'—it is not that, it is his vital.”
- “...tandis que généralement, quand on regarde dans les yeux, on rencontre assez vite une surface qui vibre et qui répond au regard, mais on n’a pas cette impression de descendre, descendre, descendre, descendre, descendre profondément comme dans un trou et très loin, très loin, très loin, très loin dedans, alors on a... une petite réponse, très tranquille. Autrement, généralement, on entre — il y a des yeux où l’on n’entre pas, c’est fermé comme une porte —, mais enfin il y a des yeux qui sont ouverts, on entre et puis on rencontre, assez près derrière, quelque chose qui vibre là, comme ça, qui brille quelquefois, qui vibre. Et alors c’est cela, si l’on se trompe, on dit : « Oh ! il a une âme vivante » — ce n’est pas cela, c’est son vital.”
- “In order to find the soul you must go in this way (gesture of going deep within), like this, draw back from the surface, withdraw deep within and enter, enter, enter, go down, down, down into a very deep hole, silent, immobile, and there, there’s a kind of... something warm, quiet, rich in substance and very still, and very full, like a sweetness—that is the soul.”
- “Pour trouver l’âme, il faut aller comme ça (geste de plongée), comme ça, se reculer de la surface, se retirer profondément, et entrer, entrer, entrer, descendre, descendre, descendre dans un trou très profond, silencieux, immobile, et alors là, il y a comme une... quelque chose qui est chaud, tranquille, riche de contenu, et très immobile, et très plein, comme une douceur — ça, c’est l’âme.
- “And if one is insistent and is conscious oneself, then there comes a kind of plenitude which gives the feeling of something complete that contains unfathomable depths in which, should one enter, one feels that many secrets would be revealed... like the reflection in very peaceful waters of something that is eternal. And one no longer feels limited by time.
- One has the feeling of having always been and of being for eternity.
- That is when one has touched the core of the soul.”
- “Et si l’on insiste et que soi-même on soit conscient, alors il se produit comme une sorte de plénitude qui donne l’impression d’une chose complète et qui contient des profondeurs insondables dans lesquelles on sent que si l’on entrait, alors il y aurait des secrets qui se révéleraient... comme une réflexion dans une eau très paisible de quelque chose qui est éternel. Et on ne se sent plus limité par le temps.
- On a l’impression d’avoir toujours été et d’être pour l’éternité.
- Ça, c’est quand on a touché le centre de l’âme.”