Talks on Transformation (Radio program)
Marlenka: Good morning, Loretta!
Loretta: Good morning.
- So I understand you're doing a lecture series – can you tell us what that's about?
The subject of the series is on the supramental transformation. And it came naturally out of the exhibition that I'm preparing for February. That exhibition is on the supramental transformation, because these words are not so familiar, especially to new people in Auroville. So this is a kind of – both a bit of an introduction, explaining what it is and why it's important, and then it touches on all the key points of Mother's experiences. And out of that has come these talks. Because there's so much to share. And there's so much to learn. And it's so helpful.
- So these lectures are based on Mother's talks?
Yes, they are. They're based on Mother's talks to the children in the Ashram, and on her discussions with Satprem, in her room. So they come basically out of the recordings from the Entretiens, and the recordings from Mother's Agenda. And at each lecture, one or two recordings will be played with Mother speaking on the subject.
I want to do this in a way that doesn't just use the terminology that was started in the early days of the Ashram. Because while the people who have been here a long time understand this terminology, a lot of people really don't.
- So this will be addressed to the new people, as well as old people?
I hope that this will touch everybody who has an interest in Mother and Sri Aurobindo, and everybody who wants to do the Yoga.
It's sort of a ‘where the rubber meets the road’ point of view. I mean, there are so many things that can illustrate it besides just using a word – a term. Kind of like you would say a technical term, in the Yoga. I mean, there are stories from the Ashram; there are people's experiences; there are Mother's experiences; there's history; there's Mother's words. And when one really goes into it – to analyze what Mother is saying – it's so sensible. It's so helpful.
- So, Mother and the transformation: you're going to simplify this in the lectures.
I'm doing my best to do it. Each simple thing is there; but we get it with so much, and they recorded or they wrote down everything that the Mother said – and it's all out there. And people don't always know what to look for.
So the titles kind of tell it all. We're starting on Thursday, January 20th , at 5:00, in Savitri Bhavan. And the first lecture is on Mother's experience of the Supramental Ship. A lot of people have read that. And everyone I know who's read it, has never forgotten it. And not only have people never forgotten it, but they actually see it in their mind's eye. And that stays with them – it stays with them for decades.
Mother comes before the school, and she's carrying a piece of paper. And she stands there, and she reads a report. Just like she's taken a trip to Delhi. And she just reads it out, flat. So we're going to go into all of what her experience was, and why it's so important.
And then the second lecture – which is one week later, on Thursday the 27th of January – is incredibly important. I'm actually just finishing that now; and it's Mother's experience where she sees that the psychic being materializes into the supramental being. We all know, now, something about the psychic being. And a lot of people who have been here for years have been trying to realize their psychic being. But then they think about the supramental being, and it's like, “What?! What, what...” But you know what: we've already got the key. We're already on the path. Mother actually sees the psychic being of one of the ashramites (an American). And I saw her in the early '70s, when I was there – and I researched her story. So I'm going to include that. It's going to... it's so interesting.
And then the third lecture is the following Thursday – and that's into February (February 3rd, 5:00). And this is – Mother becomes the tremendous pulsations of Love from the Origin. (What a title!)
And it's in English. Mother has been ill, and she's had such a profound experience – and I can't tell from listening to it (because we'll all hear it) – if she knows she's speaking in English. She's just speaking in English. And then at some point, towards almost the end of it (and she's speaking very slowly), she switches into French. So that one, I won't have to translate. We can just hear her speak in English. And then for the French part, that I will translate.
And then the fourth one moves on to how Mother does the work, and gives us a clue as to how to open up to what she's doing. And that one's called – Mother is the universal Divine Mother, receiving, manifesting and transmitting the supramental. And we have record of her speaking about her... I don't know what to call it: ‘status’, or position, or being-ness, of the Divine Mother. And can hear her talking about herself in some of these functions.
- Sounds like it's a bit of... maybe Sri Aurobindo channeling through her?
I would imagine it's always the both of them. On some level. Although it's pretty clear from what she says, that he didn't tell her what to expect, and he didn't tell her what he knew. Because for whatever reasons it may be, she as the other half has to go through, has to make the experience. So that it can be realized in her, and discovered for herself. But from the way she talks about the two of them, I imagine it's always a dual consciousness.
And then the last one is Thursday, Feburary 17th, at 5:00 – again, always at Savitri Bhavan. And it's Mother's experience of the supramental being which will incarnate in those who have a supramental body. On the 1st of January, 1969, this being comes in her; and it takes her a few days to be absolutely sure that it's like, ‘the personality’, the strength, that will be in the supramental body. But she starts out being sure that it will be in the kind of intermediary, transitional being. And doesn't say that this consciousness will, like, go away.
And she talks about what it teaches her. And it answers so many questions for her. Within that, I'm going to include her experience of the next body that she will take – she thinks it's not the supramental body; she thinks it's just the transitionary body. But she does describe it.
So these five talks bring out what have come out in my research – for this exhibition, for this year, which is following the history and trying to receive as much of Mother's realizations as possible. And it seems to be five really major points. We already have the subject for our exhibition of the following year, which will be our work on this. Because there was so much material, that I had to take only a certain amount – otherwise it's too much. Even as it is, in the exhibition itself, about 25% of my research will not be in the exhibition, but it will go in a book. So that people can take a book home with them which will have the whole exhibition, and this additional research; so that they can read it at home, at their leisure, and absorb it better.
- And am I correct in thinking that because she's had this experience, and shares it with us so explicitly – that we, too, can have the same experience?
I think that's the only reason that she came, and the only reason that she received the experiences. And it's very clear, when you listen to the tapes, how hard it is for her to talk – after some illnesses, some hard work, and in her late 80s and early 90s. And you can feel this tremendous determination that she has to get this out.
- She's got this work to do.
She's got this work to do; and she actually says that in a number of ways, again and again, through all of this. And sometimes you can hear how tired she is. But you hear this – simply, she's going to do it. And she does it.
Seeing Mother on the day she passed away
- Could I ask if it's felt – if you feel – that she completed it before she was... put in the ground?
Ok. Yes. This is my own personal opinion.
- Right, that's what I'm asking.
Just one person's... I can speak a little of my experience in seeing her, the day she passed away. Because I was there. And I saw her body. But first, let me say this, very straightforwardly: reading the Agenda, and trying to put it together so other people will get some continuity to it, I have come to the conclusion that she did the work that needed to be done. If we look at the titles [of the lectures]: first, she sees the link being constructed. Secondly, she sees what part of our being becomes the supramental. Thirdly, she goes all the way to becoming the Origin, and the final manifestation of the Origin – which is her, and Sri Aurobindo, and the work that the Origin is manifesting.
- Through them.
Through them. And through us. That's why we're here; that's why I'm giving lectures. Fourthly, she is the universal Divine Mother; we learn how she's doing it, to some degree. And fifthly, she gets the supramental Personality. The manifestation comes into the creation, to her. And, she sees and has the next body. So, the work is done.
Whether in fact her particular physical body at that time, went through all the changes to become that, in the manifestation – it doesn't look like it. (I'm not an expert on that.) But I think that's for a couple of reasons; one of which was I don't think the earth-consciousness was ready to support it. That's straight out. Because she says again and again, “this has to be in everyone”. She says, “I'm just one body; all the bodies are the same”. It has to be in everyone. That's why we are here.
So on the 18th of November, 1973, I was in the Ashram, for reasons I can't possibly remember – I was spending the night of the 17th in Golconde. And early in the morning I was walking to the dining hall to get my breakfast. And as I walked past the Samadhi building, somebody came around the corner (I haven't any memory of who it was), and said, “Mother left her body last night”. And I said, “That's impossible”. And he said, “They put her body in the meditation hall”, in the Ashram.
So I went into the Samadhi, and it looked like the Samadhi as usual – nothing special; nobody was rushing to the meditation hall. And I just went into the meditation hall. And there was Mother's body. And nobody else was there. The room was totally empty. And of course I wanted to be there (!). I mean, all these years, you want Mother, and you want Mother, and you want Mother. So I went and I stood right there. And I stood there. And I stood there. And I stood there. And I looked, and I looked, and I looked. And Mother's body was completely empty. I've never seen – I've seen bodies, people have gone, and there's something in them: there's some solidity. And it looked (if you'll pardon the term) like everything had almost been sucked out of it. It was just an empty, hollow shell, very soft. And I tried to feel anything that I knew of as Mother – because I had spent all of my time, for more than three years, on Mother, and Mother... and I could not feel anything at all.
And I formed a conclusion that she had taken with her everything that she needed. And I couldn't feel anything coming from Mother's body. But the room was full of this energy. And it was getting stronger, and stronger, and stronger. And pretty soon you could almost hear it humming, and humming, louder and louder. And nobody came in the room (!). And I couldn't believe it.
- Couldn't believe it.
I know, it was... I couldn't believe it. And so I stood; I wasn't going to leave. And then I heard the words – not in the air, but I heard them clearly, two words – I heard, “eternal contact”. And I was by this time so spaced out, that it had no emotional connotation. But I repeated the words to myself: eternal contact. Eternal contact. Eternal contact. And then I began to get really hungry (!).
- (Laughter) On your way to breakfast!
On my way to breakfast! So I ran to the dining room – I didn't say anything to anyone. And I very quietly ate my breakfast, and I came back. And there was still nobody there! And I stood there; and by that time, this humming in the room was just about audible. Mmm..mm..mm..mm. And I just stood there, and stood there. And then finally, a few people came – I think it was two or three or four people. And they weren't ashramites, but I didn't really know who they were. And they looked very small, and kind of shrunken, and concentrated. And they went over and they started doing things. And I tried to make myself very small, so they wouldn't see me (!). And I just stood there, and stood there. And finally, one of them said, “Would you please go”.
And I did. And I just went home. I mean I didn't stay, to see Mother put into the Samadhi; I didn't feel bad; I just felt like totally peaceful. Because as far as I could tell, from being there in the room, Mother had somehow finished. Or Mother was...
- She made some sort of completion.
She made a number of completions, which we're going to talk about. And I would conclude (it's only one person) – I would conclude that that was a set of completions. A complete completion.
And I will add this, because in doing this research, I came across something in the Agenda where she says she has a realization, that if she leaves the body, it can go two ways. It can either go as a single unit, and be passed on as a single unit. Or it can go, spread out everywhere. And so I add now – to my experience then, and my conclusions then (and again it's only one person) – that on some level, it was spread out. And everything in all the cells was spread out. And that kind of next understanding that I have, I would again say that it was a completion of her work.
- Thank you.
- Do you want to say anything in conclusion, further, about the lectures (or have we done that)?
I think that I would only like to say that I am doing this lecture – all these lectures – out of a tremendous wish to share everything. And I hope that everybody who wants to come and share will come.
- I'm sure you'll have many people. I'll certainly be there. Thanks, Loretta.