Loretta reads Mother's Questions and Answers:1956-09-26

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AurovilleRadio-logo-pop.png Mother's Questions and Answers: September 26, 1956
by Loretta, 2017 (1:26:13)


Loretta reads Mother's Questions and Answers
September 26, 1956
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Along with the teaching that Mother is giving in this class, we've also been trying to follow two lines of development in the Ashram. And it's come about very naturally as part of what we see going on in the class. One line is how the coming of the new supramental force is affecting Mother, and what is happening to the people in the Ashram because this has manifested. The other line is how Mother teaches the people in the Ashram. We're trying to have as much of Mother's wonderful consciousness as we can; and so we follow Mother as well. And we're following how she teaches, not by the words – which is automatic, we have that – but also by the things she does.

We know that on September 12th, Mother did not teach the class. People did not ask her questions, and so she had no teaching. In the beginning, one student asked if it was honest to ask questions and then not to practice what Mother told. Then Mother asked a question, which was “why wouldn't people practice?” and answered her own question. And she gave reasons why people didn't practice. But that's all.

However, she also said that she had brought questions with her that perhaps were only interesting to people who did practice. She just said that very quietly; and of course, any sensitive person would understand what that meant.

And we also know that after this, during the general meditation, Mother experienced a very powerful descent of Light. She said it was not like the golden light of the Supermind, but a kind of phosphorescence. And yet, what came into Mother's body was denser than her physical body; and her physical body was almost unreal, “like sand”. The light radiated out from Mother in myriads of little sparks. They penetrated into everybody. Mother saw the sparks of light enter into each one of the people present in her class.

One week later, we saw that the people in the class asked a lot of questions. Mother did not have to ask very much. And when the class finished their questions, Mother has three questions from her collection of written questions. There was a very different atmosphere in the way the students asked the questions, and the way Mother answered them. Mother's beautiful answer to the last question told us all always to love – never to stop loving. She said that if we stop loving altogether – perhaps because we believe it is not the right way, or perhaps we feel we love badly – generally, if we stop loving altogether, we reject the capacity of feeling love, and we become like a stone. And if one rejects all love, and all loving, then sometimes one has to wait for years, or even centuries, to awaken in oneself the capacity to receive and to manifest love.

Mother said that when love comes in any form, the best way is to pierce through its outer appearance – to go through, to find the divine principle behind it, the divine truth which gives love its very existence. The divine love which is behind all things.

Sri Aurobindo wrote about Mother's love often in Savitri. And he's always describing Mother when he talks about Savitri. In [Book One,] Canto II he tells many things about her capacity to love. One beautiful line is this:

Love in her was wider than the universe,
The whole world could take refuge in her single heart.[1]

He says Savitri's heart was love's perfect shrine. In Savitri, Love met his own eternity.

People who told about being with Mother in the Ashram over the years spoke of her great love. And even people who met her only once, spoke of her great love. Mother's book of Prayers and Meditations shows how she wrote us her great heart of love. In the class of last week, this advice is a simple summary:

“instead of ceasing to love because one loves [badly], one must cease to love [badly] and want to love well.” [2]

Then she explained that to love well, we must simply give love. We must be satisfied in our own loving of the one we love. We must not seek or insist on any response whatever – just give. We cannot love egotistically or selfishly or possessively. Mother said that when we can love without wanting to impose our will, we gradually advance in the feeling of love itself. Another way to eventually just be the divine Love – along with the way of just piercing through with a strong will, to try to go behind and find it.

We all believe we love; love is a thing that everybody talks about. All the movies have love. But when we truly and sincerely love – when we give and give, and more and more we begin to truly love – we love in a way that shows that we've never really loved before. And it always gets better and better. Mother says if we do this, eventually we do realize that all love comes from the Divine. We love in the experience of the Divine Love itself.

In Savitri, Savitri's father Aswapati – the great yogi king, who is the soul who is searching for the Mother – he is the traveller of the worlds, and he's gone through every layer of the being up to the highest level of the mind. And then he has to go down, down into the heart of the world – the deep heart of the world. He has to go to the soul – the soul of the world. And there he saw that this soul was a being who could love without return for love. This being was himself; and this being was all. Its power was to reveal divinity. So by loving without wanting any return for love, divinity is revealed to us – our own divinity. And the divinity of everything.

Mother's teaching on love is so beautiful. And we hope that this means that there's been a real change in all; because the whole tenor of this class was definitely different. We hope that there's been a change in all the people that received the sparks of light going out of Mother the week before. So we have to go to our class today; we have to see.

When we come to today's class, we do see that there's been a change. We see in both lines we're following: how Mother teaches, and what that Force does. We see there's a change. In the whole atmosphere of the class has changed. The atmosphere in the original tape of Mother's teachings is very alive, interested, more tender – and very intimate and friendly. And we see this also just in reading the questions and the answers. The way Mother is speaking makes you feel that it's just the two of you – that you are all alone with her in an intimate and loving conversation. This beautiful feeling of closeness is all the more interesting that it's in this class, this time. Because the fourth question in the class is this: “In the present state of the sadhana, what is the utility of a personal contact with you? To what extent does a personal contact with you help us?” And that's a very good question, because people come here and they all wish that they'd seen Mother. I know when I came, Mother was quite elderly. I had very little chance to see her. And I'd only wished I'd been a student in the school and I'd grown up with Mother. But the truth is, that the physical contact is actually happening through the Force; and the rest of the contact one can have is really a question of inner development. And wanting the inner development.

And this question brings answers from Mother about what is the value of being in her actual physical presence. Everybody wants Mother because Mother is all-Love. We all want that.

But in truth, Mother came here for the Yoga; she was one-pointed in her purpose on the Yoga; and in this case, she's speaking very directly to the subject. Mother always told people to develop their inner contact with her; and the people who really believed her and really did that have that inner contact. And here again, she says it. And then she goes further, to tell us that if people are not inwardly open, the contact is absolutely useless for the sadhana. She said that people who are closed, and who receive nothing of the forces within, and who imagine that sitting in front of Mother and chatting with her will help them to transform themselves – these people are making a gross mistake.

If there is nothing within – no inner contact – it is altogether useless. She says that when we are open inwardly, and we are receptive, we receive all the things that are necessary, all the way down to our subtle being. So for everything we are – our inward parts out to our subtle physical – we receive what we need without spending any time in Mother's physical presence, when we can be open to receive the force. And we can note that people have been hearing Mother say, “become conscious on the subtle physical”. Know what the subtle physical is. Conscious of the subtle physical, to see the workings of the new force there. And now we see that actually applies to the workings of the new force on us. And the new force is the divine Love itself. So, in any way, we receive the divine Love.

Mother says very specifically that the outer contact should only come as a crowning, and an aid, so that our material physical consciousness, and our physical body, may be able to follow the movement of our inner being. It's an integral progression. We have to begin inside ourselves. And only when we are ready inside is there any value to reach outside.

She does say that if people are inwardly open, if they are in contact with the Force, if they are sincerely making an effort to transform themselves, then perhaps – perhaps – a material contact may help them to make a more integral progress. Then in certain cases (perhaps not very often – Mother says perhaps not even very often then), the physical presence gives a more concrete and precise integral realization.

So here we are. If Mother were here in her body, how many of us could say we're ready for time in Mother's physical presence? In any case, the great love of Mother and Sri Aurobindo are everywhere, working for this; the contact is all inner. But people are aware of physical change in their own bodies that is going on now. So times are different.

In these days particularly, I know people who are doing hard sadhana – hard physical tapasya. (And ‘tapasya’ means hard yogic effort.) Hard tapas, as their bodies have to purify to receive the Force. So this integrating of the body is not always fun and games. And people do recognize that in fact they are not sick: that they are really going through something for an integral progress.

The last question in the class is about coming before Mother, and instead of our good thoughts and inner movements coming out, all our bad thoughts and impulses come forward. And Mother said they come out in front of her, so that people can get rid of them. She said in that case, a few seconds of material contact – a few seconds – would be very helpful. And in her later years, people didn't spend much time in Mother's presence; she used to say she could do her work immediately. People would only have to be in front of her for a few seconds.

And Mother says something important for us to know – we who cannot come before her physically. She says, “Automatically the Consciousness acts like that, it is like the ray that brings light where there wasn’t any.”[3] And that light of course is full consciousness. But then, we have to want to give up the bad thing. We have to give it up forever, and not take it back again. And when Mother says ‘the Consciousness’ acts, it is the consciousness of the universal and transcendent Mother, who is the new force, who carries the new force for change, who is the change; and it is automatic. In other places she has said: wherever a person is in the world – whoever they are, whatever they're doing – if they are ready, the Force has to act. And this is how we get changed.

Clearly it's working now, all over the world. Look at politics (!), other countries' governments. Look at things going on around you; look at what is going on in yourself, going on in the people you know about. These things are coming out – they're coming out for transformation. As times go on, it seems like political difficulties are increasing, as whole countries have to face the things that they have to get rid of inside themselves.

In 1958, Mother's consciousness goes to a place where she realizes that the force which is coming is the most material, most physical supramental force. And this most material of the supramental is coming into the most material, most physical, most outward part of the physical manifestation – which is us. This place came to Mother in the form of a huge boat – that's how she saw it. It is very fondly called ‘The Supramental Ship’. And it's a story that no one ever forgets. So it's in the 1958 [class] – I think it's February 19th if you want to go ahead and read it – eventually we'll get there.



But we see by this that the possibility that the outer physical – our physical body – receiving the force of change is inbuilt in the supramental manifestation. Up until 1958, and until Mother left, Mother's physical presence helped the physical body to follow the inner changes. The realization was able to be more and more integral, in a time when everything was absolutely brand-new. Now the ever-increasing force goes directly into our physical body. It does that so that our physical body can keep up with the inner changes that we make.

It's the 26th of September, 1956. We're sitting in class; Mother has just read. And this is part of what she's read that's printed in the book...


26 September 1956[4]



“All or most of the works of life are at present or seem to be actuated or vitiated by the soul of desire; even those that are ethical or religious, even those that wear the guise of altruism, philanthropy, self-sacrifice, self-denial are shot through and through with the threads of its making. This soul of desire is a separative soul of ego and all its instincts are for a separative self-affirmation; it pushes always, openly or under more or less shining masks, for its own growth, for possession, for enjoyment, for conquest and empire.”[5]

[Then? (She turns to a girl.) You have a question to ask?]

Sweet Mother what is the “soul of desire”?

It is what makes you live, act, move.

Soul, the word for soul in French, “âme” comes from a word which means “to animate”. It is what gives life to the body. If you didn’t have it you would be inert matter, something like stones or plants, not altogether inert, but vegetative.

Some people say that without desires, that is, without this soul of desire, there would never have been any progress.... In ordinary life it is something very useful but when one decides to do yoga, to find the Divine, it becomes a little cumbersome.

(Silence)

Is that all?

[(And then we hear the voice of a girl – very soft, very shy. But Mother has no problem hearing her at all. And so often she has trouble hearing louder voices. She has said it depends on the clarity of a person's thinking, how they come across.)]
When we come to you for the distribution, at times we feel free and joyful, but at times we feel nothing, we are empty. What does this indicate?
[(And there's a footnote explaining the distribution: Up until 1958, Mother would distribute groundnuts and sweets. She would do it in the evenings in the Playground when there was not a class; and people would come before her in a line, and she would give them this thing. It was a way for her to know what they were doing, how they were. And a way to have a contact with the Mother for those few seconds at that time – so the disciples could receive something from her directly. And again we note that it doesn't take very long – it's that few seconds. And now we know: were they open? Were they truly trying to do the Yoga? We can't answer the question for anybody but ourself.)]

When one is joyful, it means that one is open and receives the Force; when one feels nothing, it means that one is shut up. But what makes you open or shuts you up? For each one it is different. It depends on a number of things. Haven’t you noticed the difference in yourself, whether it depends on outside circumstances or on something within you? No?

Yes.

[No?]

[Yes.]

Yes. Ah, good!

There are many different reasons which make one feel at times more alive, more full of force and joy.... Usually, in ordinary life, there are people who, due to their very constitution, the way they are made, are in a certain harmony with Nature, as though they breathed with the same rhythm, and these people are usually always joyful, happy; they succeed in all they do, they avoid many troubles and catastrophes, indeed they are in harmony with the rhythm of life and Nature. And, moreover, there are days when one is in contact with the divine Consciousness which is at work, with the Grace, and then everything is tinged, coloured with this Presence, and things which usually seem to you dull and uninteresting become charming, pleasant, attractive, instructive — everything lives and vibrates, and is full of promise and force. So, when one opens to that, one feels stronger, freer, happier, full of energy, and everything has a meaning. One understands why things are as they are and one participates in the general movement.

There are other times when, for some reason or other, one is clouded or closed or down in a hole, and so one no longer feels anything and all things lose their taste, their interest, their value; one goes about like a walking block of wood.

Now, if one is able to consciously unite with one’s psychic being, one can always be in this state of receptivity, inner joy, energy, progress, communion with the divine Presence. And when one is in communion with That, one sees it everywhere, in everything, and all things take on their true meaning.

On what does that depend?... On an inner rhythm. Perhaps a grace. In any case on a receptivity to something that is beyond you.

[(Silence)]

[(An older ashramite)] Mother a well-developed soul, when it incarnates, does it have less difficulty in transforming this soul of desire?

[What?]

[A soul.]

[A soul?] That means?...

The great masters have less difficulties?

[(Mother is silent. She must be thinking about it very carefully.)]

One can’t say.

In principle it is like that, but in fact, the more the individuality is formed, the stronger is this false soul of desire. Those who have a well-formed, well-coordinated individuality, which has an existence of its own, with a minimum of dependence on the environment, have much more difficulty in coming into contact with the divine Presence than others, because they have a very coordinated, very organised separate existence, which is usually self-sufficient. One always finds it much more difficult to convert, we might say, a very living, fully realised personality than someone, for instance, who is full of goodwill but still open to all sorts of influences. When an individual is very strongly made and has the sense of his own personality, his own existence, it is much more difficult for him to think that he is nothing but an instrument of the divine Force, than for somebody who feels a little nebulous, like this (gesture) not very precise, who has no exact limits, no well-built individuality; he understands more easily that in himself he is nothing and that it is a force other than his own which makes him act. So you cannot say that a well-developed soul has less difficulties. It depends on the case. What you mean, I think, is that if you are in contact with your soul — the true one — it is relatively easy to get rid of the soul of desire. But that is a different situation. You must first have found your psychic being and identified yourself with it; and then, later, you may turn to the soul of desire and convince it of its stupidity.

(Long silence [- 45 seconds])

[Is that all? Nothing over there? No?]

[(We hear Mother starting to look through her pile of questions; papers are being shuffled.)]

[I have all sorts of things, but...]

[(Long silence – 3 ½ minutes)]

[(Sound of papers; sound of small children playing in the background. The clock in Mother's room in the Playground chimes softly.)]

[Is that it? I tried to find – but I found nothing.]

[(Last week, she had three questions out of this pile of papers. So we can speculate that what she means is that there is nothing so important as answering a living question from someone who's awake and conscious – and she wants these people to be like that.)]

(To a child) Do you have anything to ask?

Not I, Mother. Somebody has asked a question: “In the present state of the sadhana, what is the utility of a personal contact with you?”

[What is...]

[What is the necessity –] to what extent does a personal contact with you help us?

[In the sadhana? Utility of what?]

[In the present state of the sadhana.]

[Yes...]

[What is the utility of a personal contact with you?]

What is meant by a personal contact? To see me, speak to me, what? Individually, collectively, how?

Individually.

Oh! (laughing) to have interviews?

[(The people laugh: everybody wants to go talk to Mother.)]

[Oh, someone puts this question!] You may answer that it depends on the use one makes of them.

It is very difficult to answer, for it is a purely personal question. It depends on the moment, depends on the state one is in, and above all, as I say, it depends on whether one knows how to use this contact properly.

Don’t you see, if one is inwardly open, if one is receptive, one receives right down into the subtle physical all that is necessary for one’s integral progress. And in the order of things, the outer contact should come only as a crowning and an aid so that the body — the material physical consciousness and the body — may be able to follow the movement of the inner being.

But if you believe that this contact is going to replace the inner receptivity, you are mistaken, it is not much use. For example, people who are quite closed up, who receive nothing within, who have no opening to the forces and who imagine that because they are going to spend half an hour or an hour sitting in front of me and chatting, this is going to help them to transform themselves, they make a gross mistake. But if they are inwardly open, if they are in contact with the Force and make an effort to transform themselves, then, at a particular moment, perhaps a conversation or a material contact, a presence, may help them to make a more integral progress.

One may very easily live in close proximity, in one’s daily life be apparently very near, and get nothing at all out of it, at least in the active consciousness. Perhaps there is a very slow and deep action which goes on... but it seems to me that it would go on in any case. And if, while by my side for some reason or other the thought is elsewhere, the desires elsewhere, the preoccupations elsewhere, it is absolutely useless, it leads to nothing.

The important point is to establish the inner contact; this is really the important point. Then in certain cases — perhaps not very often, it depends on each one — but in certain cases, the presence adds something, gives a more concrete, more precise realisation. But if there is nothing within, it is altogether useless. So one cannot make a general rule, it depends on each one, on the state he is in.

(Silence)

You see, the general mistake is to believe that one must begin from outside and reach within. It is not like that. One must begin within and reach outside afterwards, when one is ready within.

(The boy is asking another question – but he's asking his own question. He has learned something; he has been moved by what Mother has said. And now he is ready to come forward.)
Mother, when we come to you, we try to be at our best possible, that is, to have very good thoughts; but often, on the contrary, all the bad impulses, bad thoughts we had during the day come forward.
[(And most interesting, Mother hears every single word loud and clear. She doesn't have to ask “What?”, or anything.)]

That is perhaps so that you can get rid of them.

If they come, one can offer them and ask to be rid of them. That perhaps is the reason, it is because the Consciousness acts for purification. It is no use at all hiding things and pushing them behind, like this, and imagining they are not there because one has put a veil in front. It is much better to see oneself as one is — provided one is ready to give up this way of being. If you come allowing all the bad movements to rise to the surface, to show themselves; if you offer them, if you say, “Well, this is how I am”, and if at the same time you have the aspiration to be different, then this second of presence is extremely useful; you can, yes, in a few seconds receive the help you need to get rid of them; while if you come like a little saint and go away content, without having received anything, it is not very useful.

Automatically the Consciousness acts like that, it is like the ray that brings light where there wasn’t any. Only,what is needed is to be in a state where one wants to give up the thing, to get rid of it — not to cling to it and keep it. If one sincerely wants to pull it out of oneself, make it disappear, then it is very useful.

(Silence)

Indeed, I could ask a question myself: Why — I don’t know if it is common, but still — why, when you come to me, do you want to have good thoughts and be at your best? For what reason?

To have bad movements before you is very ugly! (Laughter)

If you want to keep them, yes, it is very ugly, but if you want to get rid of them!... It is perhaps a chance to get rid of them. It is surely even an opportunity to get rid of them, because before me they appear exactly as they are; while far from me they are coloured with all sorts of brilliant and false lights, so that you take them for what they are not. If the movement is nasty and you see it in my atmosphere, it appears exactly as it is. Then that is the time to get rid of it.

(Silence)

To give the best one has is very fine and is much appreciated; but to give the worst one has is much more useful; and perhaps this offering is even more appreciated — on condition that it is given in order to get rid of it, not to take it back afterwards!

[(Silence – 1 minute)]

[That's all?]


Le 26 septembre 1956[6]



Douce Mère, qu’est‑ce qu’une «âme de désir»?

C’est ce qui vous fait vivre, agir, mouvoir.

Âme, cela vient d’un mot qui signifie animer. C’est ce qui donne la vie au corps. Si vous n’aviez pas cela, vous seriez une matière inerte, quelque chose comme les pierres ou les plantes; pas tout à fait inertes, mais végétatifs.

Certaines gens disent que sans les désirs, c’est-à-dire sans cette âme de désir, il n’y aurait jamais eu de progrès... Dans la vie ordinaire, c’est une chose très utile, mais quand on décide de faire le yoga, de trouver le Divin, cela devient un peu encombrant.

(silence)

C’est tout?

Quand nous venons à toi pour la distribution , parfois on se sent libre et joyeux, mais d’autres fois, on ne sent

rien, on est vide. Qu’est‑ce que cela veut dire?

Quand on est joyeux, cela veut dire qu’on est ouvert et qu’on reçoit la Force ; quand on ne sent rien, cela veut dire qu’on est fermé.

Mais qu’est‑ce qui vous rend ouverts ou qu’est‑ce qui vous rend fermés? Pour chacun c’est différent. Cela dépend d’une quantité de choses. Tu n’as pas remarqué la différence en toi, si cela dépend des circonstances extérieures ou de quelque chose au-dedans de toi, non?

Oui.

Oui. Ah! bon.

Il y a beaucoup de raisons différentes qui font que l’on se sent parfois plus vivant, plus plein de force et de joie... Généralement, dans la vie ordinaire, il y a des gens qui, à cause même de leur constitution, de la façon dont ils sont construits, sont dans une certaine harmonie avec la Nature, comme s’ils respiraient d’un même rythme, et ceux-là sont d’habitude toujours joyeux, contents ; ils réussissent ce qu’ils font, ils évitent beaucoup d’ennuis et de catastrophes, enfin ce sont ceux qui sont en accord avec le rythme de la vie et de la Nature. Et en plus, il y a les jours où l’on est en rapport avec la Conscience divine qui est à l’oeuvre, avec la Grâce; et alors, tout se teinte, se colore de cette Présence, et les choses qui généralement vous paraissent mornes ou sans intérêt deviennent charmantes, plaisantes, attractives, instructives — tout vit et vibre, et c’est plein de promesses et de force. Alors, quand on s’ouvre à cela, on se sent plus fort, plus libre, plus heureux, plein d’énergie, et tout a un sens. On comprend pourquoi les choses sont comme elles sont, et on participe au mouvement général.

Il y a d’autres moments où, pour une raison quelconque, on est obscurci ou fermé, ou descendu dans un trou, et alors, on ne sent plus rien et toutes les choses perdent leur goût, leur intérêt, leur valeur ; on est comme un morceau de bois ambulant.

Maintenant, si l’on réussit à s’unir consciemment à son être psychique, alors on peut toujours être dans cet état de réceptivité, de joie intérieure, d’énergie, de progrès, de communion avec la Présence divine. Et quand on est en communion avec Elle, on La voit partout, en toute chose, et toutes les chosen prennent leur signification vraie.

De quoi cela dépend ?... D’un rythme intérieur. Peut-être d’une grâce. En tout cas, d’une réceptivité à quelque chose qui vous dépasse.

Mère, une âme qui est bien développée, quand elle s’incarne, est‑ce qu’elle a moins de difficultés à transformer cette âme de désir ?

Cela veut dire?

Les grands maîtres ont moins de difficultés?

On ne peut pas dire.

En principe c’est comme cela, mais en fait, cette fausse âme de désir est d’autant plus forte que l’individualité est formée. Ceux qui ont une individualité bien formée, bien coordonnée, qui existe en soi, dans un minimum de dépendance de l’entourage, ont beaucoup plus de difficultés à entrer en contact avec la Présence divine que les autres, parce qu’ils ont une existence séparée très coordonnée, très organisée, et généralement qui se suffit à elle-même. On rencontre toujours beaucoup plus de difficultés à convertir, si l’on peut dire, une personnalité très existante, très réalisée, que quelqu’un, par exemple, qui est plein de bonne volonté mais qui est encore ouvert à toutes sortes d’influences. Quand un individu est très bien construit et qu’il a le sens de sa personnalité, de son existence propre, il lui est beaucoup plus difficile de concevoir qu’il n’est rien qu’un instrument de la Force divine, que quelqu’un qui se sent un peu flou, comme cela, pas très précis, qui n’a pas de limites très exactes, qui n’a pas d’individualité très construite; il comprend plus facilement qu’en lui-même il n’est rien et que c’est une force autre que la sienne qui le fait agir. Alors, vous ne pouvez pas dire qu’une âme bien développée a moins de difficultés. Cela dépend des cas.

Ce que vous voulez dire, je pense, c’est que, si vous êtes en rapport avec votre âme (la vraie), il est relativement facile de se débarrasser de l’âme de désir. Mais cela, c’est une position différente. Il faut d’abord avoir trouvé son être psychique et s’identifier à lui ; et après, alors, vous pouvez vous tourner vers l’âme de désir et la convaincre de son imbécillité.

(long silence)

(À un enfant) Tu as quelque chose à demander?

Pas moi, Mère. Quelqu’un avait posé une question: «Dans l’état actuel de la sâdhanâ, quelle est l’utilité du contact personnel avec toi ? Dans quelle mesure un contact personnel avec toi nous aide-t-il?»

Qu’est‑ce qu’on entend par contact personnel ? Me voir, me parler, quoi ? Individuellement, collectivement, comment?

Individuellement.

Oh! (riant) avoir des entrevues!

Tu pourras répondre que cela dépend de l’usage que l’on en fait.

Il est très difficile de répondre, parce que c’est une question purement personnelle. Cela dépend du moment, cela dépend de l’état dans lequel on se trouve et, par-dessus tout, je dis, cela dépend de si l’on sait employer comme il convient ce contact.

N’est‑ce pas, si l’on est ouvert intérieurement, si l’on est réceptif, on reçoit jusque dans le physique subtil tout ce qui est nécessaire pour faire son progrès intégralement. Et dans l’ordre des choses, le contact extérieur ne devrait venir que comme un couronnement et une aide pour que le corps — la conscience physique matérielle et le corps — puisse suivre le mouvement de l’être intérieur.

Mais si vous croyez que ce contact va remplacer la réceptivité intérieure, vous vous trompez, cela ne sert pas à grandchose. Par exemple, les gens qui sont tout à fait fermés, qui ne reçoivent rien au-dedans, qui n’ont pas d’ouverture aux forces et qui s’imaginent que, parce qu’ils vont passer une demi-heure ou une heure assis en face de moi à bavarder, cela va les aider à se transformer, ils font une erreur grossière. Mais s’ils sont ouverts intérieurement, s’ils sont en contact avec la Force et qu’ils font des efforts pour se transformer, alors, à un moment donné, peut-être une conversation, ou un contact matériel, une présence peut les aider à faire un progrès plus intégral.

On peut très bien vivre tout à fait à proximité, avoir une vie quotidienne très apparemment proche, et ne rien en tirer du tout, du moins dans la conscience active. Peut-être y a-t-il une très lente et profonde action qui se poursuit... mais il me semble qu’elle se poursuivrait dans tous les cas. Et si, étant à côté de moi pour une raison quelconque, la pensée est ailleurs, les désirs sont ailleurs, les préoccupations sont ailleurs, c’est absolument inutile, cela ne mène à rien.

Le point important, c’est d’établir le contact intérieur; cela, c’est vraiment le point important. Alors, dans certains cas (peut-être pas très souvent, cela dépend de chacun), mais dans certains cas, la présence ajoute quelque chose, donne une réalisation plus concrète, plus précise. Mais s’il n’y a rien intérieurement, c’est tout à fait inutile. Donc on ne peut pas faire une loi générale, cela dépend de chacun, de l’état dans lequel il se trouve.

(silence)

N’est‑ce pas, l’erreur générale, c’est de croire qu’on doit commencer par le dehors et arriver au-dedans. Ce n’est pas comme cela. On doit commencer par le dedans et arriver audehors après, quand on est prêt dedans.

Mère, quand on vient à toi, on essaye d’être le mieux possible, c’est-à-dire d’avoir de très bonnes pensées ; mais souvent, au contraire, toutes les mauvaises impulsions, les mauvaises pensées qu’on avait eues pendant la journée, cela vient en face.

C’est peut-être pour s’en débarrasser.

Si elles viennent, on peut en faire l’offrande et demander à s’en débarrasser.

C’est peut-être cela la raison, c’est parce que la Conscience agit pour purifier. Cela ne sert à rien de cacher les choses et de les pousser en arrière, comme ça, et de s’imaginer qu’elles ne sont pas là parce qu’on a mis un voile devant. Il vaut beaucoup mieux se voir tel qu’on est — à condition d’être prêt à abandonner cette manière d’être. Si l’on vient en laissant tous les mauvais mouvements sortir à la surface, se montrer, si on les offre, si on dit : «Eh bien, voilà comment je suis», et qu’on ait en même temps l’aspiration d’être autrement, alors cette seconde de présence est tout à fait utile ; on peut, oui, en quelques secondes, recevoir l’aide nécessaire pour se débarrasser. Tandis que si l’on arrive comme un petit saint, et qu’on s’en aille satisfait sans avoir rien reçu, ce n’est pas très utile.

Automatiquement la Conscience agit comme cela, c’est comme le rayon qui fait la lumière là où il n’y en avait pas. Mais seulement, ce qui est nécessaire, c’est d’être dans l’état où l’on veut donner la chose, s’en débarrasser — pas s’y accrocher et la garder. Si, sincèrement, on veut la sortir de soi, la faire disparaître, alors c’est très utile.

(silence)

Au fond, je pourrais, moi, poser une question : pourquoi (je ne sais pas si c’est général, mais enfin), pourquoi, quand on vient à moi, veut-on avoir de bonnes pensées et être le meilleur de soi-même ? Pour quelle raison ?

Avoir de mauvais mouvements devant toi, c’est très laid! (rires)

Si on veut les garder, oui, c’est très laid, mais si on veut s’en débarrasser !... C’est peut-être une occasion de s’en débarrasser. C’est même sûrement une occasion de s’en débarrasser; parce que, devant moi, ils paraissent exactement comme ils sont, tandis que loin de moi, ils se colorent de toutes sortes de lumières brillantes et fausses qui font qu’on les prend pour ce qu’ils ne sont pas. Quand le mouvement est vilain et qu’on le voit dans mon atmosphère, il apparaît exactement comme il est. Alors c’est le moment de s’en débarrasser.

(silence)

Donner ce que l’on a de meilleur, c’est très gentil et c’est très apprécié ; mais donner ce que l’on a de pire, c’est beaucoup plus utile ; et peut-être est‑ce une offrande qui est même plus appréciée — à condition qu’on le donne pour s’en débarrasser, pas pour le reprendre après!




  1. Savitri, p.15, “The Issue”
  2. Questions and Answers 1956, p.301
  3. Questions and Answers 1956, p.308
  4. Questions and Answers 1956, p.303
  5. The Synthesis of Yoga, p.175, “The Ascent of the Sacrifice – 2: The Works of Love—The Works of Life”
  6. Entretiens 1956, p.338